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Gotta' play it soon. What horn was it written for and what do you use?

ThnkZ!

Whatever works. The horns it was written for, through the entire brass section, were smaller and brighter. And shinier, most likely.

I've done it with 2 CCs and F and CC. I've seen/heard it done with Eb and BBb, Eb and CC, and possibly F and BBb, that one is unsure.
Probably, even a big and small Eb would rock it.

I did it in 1966 with a BBb 186 as a Sophomore in college with the Amarillo Symphony.
Rick

A guy on the trombone forum said he did it with a comp euph and a 321 Eb.

eupher61 wrote:Whatever works.

What he said. I've had the good fortune to play this piece twice--once on each part--and both times the other player and I each used an F and a C. Can either part be played on one instrument? Yes, depending on the players and the horns. I like having the bass tuba "point" in the upper register and the contrabass weight on the lower stuff. YMMV.

My band regularly does this with euph and F. That said, I've subbed where 1st players have insisted on *only* 6/4 BATs on both parts, or other gigs where they've insisted we both bring 2 horns (I must have done 20 productions of this ...).

I've said it before: the 4-tubas-onstage thing is obviously nothing more than an emergency measure for security on the high parts, and I don't condone it (but I will bring 2 tubas under duress, and cash the check to boot!).

Regarding two specific passages:

Reh. 64-71, which a well-known performer/instructor referred to as the "page of death," the range is from F# second line up to C# above the staff in both tuba parts. Not all that daunting..if played once or twice. But its long tones go on for about 2 1/2 minutes (34 bars). One would initially think that bass tuba would offer good projection and some chop relief. But the part is marked molto pesante. Contrabass all the way?

Same question, different passage: This was jocosely posted on FB by Carol J. regarding their Philly Orchestra performance of reh. 112-114:

Dear high G-flats:

Take that!!!!!

love,
Carol and David Zerkel

The passage is marked Soli and ff. The pairing of F on the staff with Gb above the staff appears 8 1/2 times. The rest of the orchestra is quite busy at the spot, too. Again, knock 'em dead with contrabasses for both tuba players?

I performed this back in the late 90s, and all I had access to, and all I was capable of was my 186. Tuba2 worked just fine on it. My colleague at the time was playing Tuba1 on a larger Cerveney instruement; we were both poor freshmen college students, and we made due with what we had at the time. Since then, I think a bass tuba or even euphonium would be ideal for tuba 1. A euph might not have some of the sheer terror capacity the is alluded to in previous posts, but it would be very secure. I would totally agree with Joe, the tuba2 has to have meat and growl capabilities.

Sometimes, I think these kinds of parts were written with some intended malice and that the player should respond in kind. Considering the violent nature of the music, maybe using a contrabass on both parts is appropriate. Every time I have performed this work (many times) I have used my RM-10 CC on the 1st part. The Rudy can be very nasty if pushed, with just the right amount of edge and rip in the sound. It makes the higher parts more difficult but not untenable. I can understand Carol's reaction after a successful performance, I have had that exact same sensation myself. It really has a feel of physically conquering something, maybe reaching a mountain summit after a long climb. I would think any horn that you can really rip on (and that will hold up at very loud volumes) would be the ideal choice. I agree with Joe, this ain't the place for a 6/4 "foundational" sound. I love the description "page of death", that is totally perfect. When you have a really good horn section in the orchestra, that passage can be a real physical test.

I have played this with 2 CC tubas twice and once where I played the first part on my York Eb tuba. All went well. It is the player behind the tuba that makes the difference, not the type of tuba you use.

bloke wrote:If the two hired players own one tuba each, those two particular tubas will be the ones used to play the piece...

...yes...??

That's exactly what I thought. I generally find these threads about "what horn to use" mildly amusing...at least, until they inevitably denigrate into "composer intent." Then they just get plain dumb.

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:I generally find these threads about "what horn to use" mildly amusing...at least, until they inevitably denigrate into "composer intent." Then they just get plain dumb.

M u s t . . . n o t . . . r e s p o n d . . .

First time I did it was my on Piggy CC on first, 188CC on second. Second time me on PT10 F on first, big Cerveny CC on 2nd. I preferred the Piggy over the F on the top part.

Interesting to see the Alexander recommended for Tuba 2. I would be afraid it would play too dark for that part. But, perhaps with the right MP and the right player (which would take me out of the mix), it could work.

I am playing it right now on Wessex EEb. It works great on compensated EEb tuba to handle the high and low stuff.

One thing is I am using shallower cup mouthpiece than usual (a Denis Wick 2SL) to brighten the tone and make the high register easier.

I'm getting the honor of playing Rite of Spring with Sergio Carolino at the end of this month in Porto, Portugal. Sergio tells me that we'll both be playing CC Contrabass Tubas. I know he plays the Yamayork and he says he's got something special for me. This should be a blast!

Mike Forbes

I'm not sure...

I am also doing it this month.1st part on mw 2145 2nd on conn 56j.should be fine....

Mike Forbes wrote:Sergio tells me that we'll both be playing CC Contrabass Tubas.

Assuming that the conductor (who hopefully is truly knowledgable about tubas--woefully rare) doesn't specify what horn(s) to play, is the choice of horns yielded to the Principal or "home" player as a matter of orchestral etiquette (not excluding musical justification) or left with the individual players for their own selection? Of course, this applies only to orchestras who have only one tubist on their regular roster, unlike some European orchestras whose roster may include a BBb player and an F [solo] tubist.

Turns out I played a Mini-Yamayork (4/4) prototype. It played well--but not like the Yamayork...that bad boy is a 6/4 and truly takes a special approach which yields a very special sound...especially in Sergio's hands. The 4/4 is more like other 4/4's I've played in terms of blowing. The response was nice in all registers which helped with the crazy Gb-F lick and the very low stuff. Btw, I could certainly see playing this work on 2 F tubas, but you'd really need to blow. I was proud of Sergio's and my performance on 2 CC's....there were some amazing moments that only dual CC's could produce.

As for the mini-Yamayork prototype--no, Yamaha doesn't have any immediate plans to actually go forward with production of this model. So for those of you eager and waiting, don't hold your breath. I'm not sure why they don't produce it; I think it would be a good contender in that market...we'll have to wait and see....but Sergio says for now, it's just an experiment.

All the best,
Mike Forbes