Financing a tuba

[nbrenhol]

Hello,

I have been doing almost a year of research (on this page, interviews, and online resources) on buying a tuba. I have been trying to save up money to purchase my own tuba. It has been almost 5 years, and have saved up no money. I am now graduating college with my performance degree, heading to graduate school. I am interested in purchasing a tuba.

My student loans that were offered to me covered my tuition and nothing else. My parents are so financially unstable and not willing to cosign a loan for me, nor do my grandparents. Saving my money has given me very little, because of bills and food.

99% of places I've looked don't do financing, and the only place I've seen that does won't approve me for their credit because I don't have enough credit and my debt-to-income ratio is too high.

I feel as if my graduate studies require me to proficient in contrabass and bass tuba.

Is there any advice to buying a tuba? As in financing.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I would suggest buying a used king 1241, or similar tuba, that is affordable. That way, you will have a horn to play on, while you save for another instrument (if you want to).

[swillafew]

It sounds like you have issues larger than buying a horn. If you are already broke, the graduate studies are going to leave you more so. The comment about a second horn implies adding one. If you have a performance degree, get yourself some gigs and pay for the horn that way. If you can't find any gigs, ask yourself if another degree would make a difference.

[bort]

What you are describing is what often happens to kids going to school for undergrad. No money, no tuba, and trying to figure out what to do. I am guessing you were able to use a school-owned tuba for undergrad... good job for making that work!

Maybe a few more details would help us help you? The easiest way to talk about money is to use numbers and get to the point.

-- How much do you have, and how much do you need? Are you talking about having $1,000 towards a $10,000 tuba? Or like $300 towards whatever you can find. Or rather, what is your goal, and how far from it are you?
-- It is April now... did you already accept the offer for your grad school? Are you committed to going, or is that contingent on having your own tuba? Or does your grad school have a tuba you can use?
-- If the problem is income, get a job (or even take a year off in-between, tough as that is). Move to the Dakotas and take a miserable high-paying job in an oil field for a year, I don't know... If the problem is debt, please tell me that most, if not all, of your grad school is being paid for by the school. If not, you might want to re-examine your options. It's not like law school or business school where you are going to get a high-salary job when you graduate. And unlike most other debts, bankruptcy does not absolve student loans... you are stuck with them forever, so be smart about what you are doing now.

This statement left me confused:

I feel as if my graduate studies require me to proficient in contrabass and bass tuba.

You say you are scrapping to save for a tuba... are you really looking to buy two tubas?

Good luck!

[Matt Walters]

I'll offer a few suggestion under the assumption you are truly financially ignorant because your parents may be etc. and not just expecting a $20K tuba to be handed to you.
1) Grab a couple dollars that would have gone to beer and/or extra Pizza and buy yourself a copy of "The Richest MAn in Babylon":
"The Richest Man in Babylon is a book by George Samuel Clason which dispenses financial advice through a collection of parables set in ancient Babylon. Through their experiences in business and managing household finance, the characters in the parables learn simple lessons in financial wisdom" Copied from Wikipedia. Heck, you can get a used copy on Amazon.
This is a fun easy read with short little stories.

2) After you have saved up some money by doing extra odd jobs and doing without luxuries, buy the first cheap, used, doesn't suck, tuba in BBb or CC that you can afford. Don't buy something that you will hate to play, but it is okay to want better than what you have. If it is a 3 valve bell front, so be it.

3) Keep saving up money in a passbook savings account towards a better tuba. If you can't trust yourself not to spend it, let a trusted grandparent etc. hold onto the passbook in between deposits. If you really can't trust yourself, give them the money and have them make the deposit. Tell them to only let you have it to make deposits or do a withdraw to get a better tuba. One of my Nephews did this with my mom to save up money for a down payment on a house. He knew he couldn't trust himself not to cash it out from time to time so my mom held him to his word and then the day came when he had the money and did make a down on a little house.

3a) Keep a change jar that you use to catch the loose change or dollar bills. When you have about $20 worth, go deposit that in the passbook savings. I do this trick myself.

4) TRADE UP when you see a good deal on a better tuba than what you have and you have some extra money set aside. It's tough to get all your money back out of the previous tuba but think of it like rent. If you bought a $600 BBb tuba and 18 months later traded it in for only $420, it only cost you $10 a month to "rent" that tuba. Hopefully you got at least an Easter gig or such to cover that little bit.

5) Keep saving and trading up until you get a nice tuba that you really like and that does all that you need.

6) When you get out of college and get a full time job with benefits like a 401K, find a Financial Adviser to help you make smarter decisions than I did at your age. If no such job, still find a Financial Adviser when you you have a couple thousand saved up beyond your emergency fund.

[Matt Walters]

I'll offer a few suggestion under the assumption you are truly financially ignorant because your parents may be etc. and not just expecting a $20K tuba to be handed to you.
1) Grab a couple dollars that would have gone to beer and/or extra Pizza and buy yourself a copy of "The Richest MAn in Babylon":
"The Richest Man in Babylon is a book by George Samuel Clason which dispenses financial advice through a collection of parables set in ancient Babylon. Through their experiences in business and managing household finance, the characters in the parables learn simple lessons in financial wisdom" Copied from Wikipedia. Heck, you can get a used copy on Amazon.
This is a fun easy read with short little stories.

2) After you have saved up some money by doing extra odd jobs and doing without luxuries, buy the first cheap, used, doesn't suck, tuba in BBb or CC that you can afford. Don't buy something that you will hate to play, but it is okay to want better than what you have. If it is a 3 valve bell front, so be it.

3) Keep saving up money in a passbook savings account towards a better tuba. If you can't trust yourself not to spend it, let a trusted grandparent etc. hold onto the passbook in between deposits. If you really can't trust yourself, give them the money and have them make the deposit. Tell them to only let you have it to make deposits or do a withdraw to get a better tuba. One of my Nephews did this with my mom to save up money for a down payment on a house. He knew he couldn't trust himself not to cash it out from time to time so my mom held him to his word and then the day came when he had the money and did make a down on a little house.

3a) Keep a change jar that you use to catch the loose change or dollar bills. When you have about $20 worth, go deposit that in the passbook savings. I do this trick myself.

4) TRADE UP when you see a good deal on a better tuba than what you have and you have some extra money set aside. It's tough to get all your money back out of the previous tuba but think of it like rent. If you bought a $600 BBb tuba and 18 months later traded it in for only $420, it only cost you $10 a month to "rent" that tuba. Hopefully you got at least an Easter gig or such to cover that little bit.

5) Keep saving and trading up until you get a nice tuba that you really like and that does all that you need.

6) When you get out of college and get a full time job with benefits like a 401K, find a Financial Adviser to help you make smarter decisions than I did at your age. If no such job, still find a Financial Adviser when you you have a couple thousand saved up beyond your emergency fund.

[Uncle Buck]

One more vote for taking a year or so off in between undergrad and grad school to get more serious about saving up for the instrument purchase.

[bort]

4) TRADE UP when you see a good deal on a better tuba than what you have and you have some extra money set aside. It's tough to get all your money back out of the previous tuba but think of it like rent. If you bought a $600 BBb tuba and 18 months later traded it in for only $420, it only cost you $10 a month to "rent" that tuba. Hopefully you got at least an Easter gig or such to cover that little bit.

I'm glad to hear someone else thinks this way. My first tuba was an Olds O-99... it was donated to my old HS band director, missing a valve, and had a dented bell. He told me he was going to make a lamp out of it, so I asked him if I could have it. He agreed, given that I would have it fixed. So... I got a free tuba, and put about $800 into it to have it repaired. About 4 years later, I traded it in towards a different tuba, and got $700 for it. Per month (or per year), the "rent" was cheap and it was well worth it.

[PMeuph]

There has been lots of good advice listed above, I won't repeat it.

1. Can you borrow a tuba from anywhere? (The school or if you decide to join: a community band or an army reserve band, etc...)

2. Do you need one or two tubas? (It seems that if you're struggling to buy one, buying 2 might be crazy) (Maybe buying a good all-around tuba might be a better way to proceed)

3. Are you going in more debt to go to grad school? (If yes, don't go. http://chronicle.com/article/Graduate-S ... -the/44846" target="_blank" target="_blank)

4. If your going to grad school, what does your future teacher say?

[PMeuph]

If you're after a bass and contrabass... Dillon's has a King 3v BBb for ~$500 and a 3v Eb for ~$500. For about a grand you can get you're problem solved and I've read plenty of stuff about professionals that began their careers as performance majors on 3v BBb and Eb tubas.

Jim Self won a job with the US Army Band on a King 3v BBb.

[The Big Ben]

If you're after a bass and contrabass... Dillon's has a King 3v BBb for ~$500 and a 3v Eb for ~$500. For about a grand you can get you're problem solved and I've read plenty of stuff about professionals that began their careers as performance majors on 3v BBb and Eb tubas.

Jim Self won a job with the US Army Band on a King 3v BBb.

That's right! "Old Number One". His college found the horn and had it restored and gave it to him as a gift about 25 years into his career.

[swillafew]

The phrase "army job" goes so well with "financing a tuba"

[NCSUSousa]

I realize this isn't what the original poster wants to hear, but here's my advice based on the original post:

First - If you don't own a Tuba, don't go headlong after a post-graduate degree related to your ability to use one. A mechanic who doesn't own any tools can't open up their own garage. You should be able to figure out where this analogy is headed.

Second - Take MORE THAN ONE year off between undergrad and grad school to earn enough to cover your new instrument as well as solidifying an employment position that will allow you to work and study. It's not ideal to split your time between work and study, but it will help you in the long term. Figure out something that you can do for a living (possibly even that you can work towards while you're in grad school) and start working toward that end. You may also want to seriously consider how this degree will help you once you have it. There is a segment of academia that encourages the pursuit of advanced degrees, not because it's right for the student, but because it's what keeps their teaching jobs intact. This logic, unfortunately, can be found in the arts, liberal studies, and (more recently) law schools...

I wish you well if you do eventually make it to Grad school, but have this one final piece of advice: School loans are the only inescapable form of debt. If you don't know what that means, take the time to figure it out before going to grad school. Loan interest on grad school debt is also not privileged the way other debts are concerning taxes. If you do take some of the offered loans, remember that you should keep them as small as possible.

[Michael Bush]

If you're after a bass and contrabass... Dillon's has a King 3v BBb for ~$500 and a 3v Eb for ~$500. For about a grand you can get you're problem solved and I've read plenty of stuff about professionals that began their careers as performance majors on 3v BBb and Eb tubas.

Jim Self won a job with the US Army Band on a King 3v BBb.

There are quite a few tubas available for sale for under $1000 that are better than no tuba at all.

If you start by comparing the tuba you can afford with no tuba (instead of with the tuba someone else might be able to buy) they're pretty good.

[bbocaner]

I say go for it. Don't go overboard and get the most expensive thing you find, and make sure you do the math and that the payments are not going to be a problem now or any time in the future, but a quality instrument is a very good investment. Especially while you are in school. You'll have more practice time and opportunities to play in groups now than you will ever have later, and if having a really good instrument now will inspire you to practice more, or give you the edge to be the guy in the studio that gets into all the best ensembles, then it'd be a real disservice to your education to not get it sooner rather than later.

The days are gone that you could win an audition without top of the line equipment. Everything is so hyper competitive that you need every little advantage you can get. Even if you are the best player and have practiced your butt off.

[bort]

Is the OP still around?

[nbrenhol]

So, not trying to be mean, what makes you think we'll have other answers, if you've already searched the forum?

Paying for a tuba won't help your bill situation.

It sounds like you don't have any extra money, not even some tocover an emergency situation. The tuba should be pretty low on the list of things, given you'll be accumulating more debt in graduate school.

I mean, if you can't afford it now, how do you expect to afford payments over the longterm for a tuba?

In those five years, how much did you party, buy booze, have internet or a phone, go out to eat, have a car, not work? All these things are extra bits that you may not want to give up, but aren't helping you get a tuba.

Besides, you can get a tuba for 500 dollars on eBay, Dillons, BBC, and a dozen of other websites. Hell you can get an "eastern" made instrument for about 1000!

Well, as it turns out, I have received a few messages giving me more options than I've never seen before. So it turned out to work for the better for me.

As for debt in graduate school, I'm not worried about. Debt is the least of my concerns. Doing what I want forever, using something that'll only help me get better, is worth the debt. I can't go on into graduate school without the most basic thing I need to create my career.

As for what I did for the past 5 years, you obviously judge a little too much. I never party. Ever. I have way better things to be doing with my time. (as well as not hurting my body) I don't "go out and buy booze." Again, alcohol is the least of my priorities when I'm grocery shopping. My mom pays for my phone, and my landlord pays for the internet/cable. No, I do not have a car. I live less than a block from my school, and walk/bike to school/work. And yes, I was working. McDonald's for 30 hours a week and my work study for 20 hours a week. So don't even worry about that. I knew what I was getting myself in to. I knew what it would take; or at least I thought I did.

The only thing I'll give you is my money for food and buying a cheap tuba. I refuse to eat anything processed/premade. What is the point of killing your body, in order to buy an instrument, that you can only play a shorter amount of time because you ate crap? And buying a $500 tuba may seem like a fine idea; and I may be forced to. I came on here, though, to see if anyone had better options than to sell my soul for a buck. And yes, I received information I was seeking. Thank you.



As for everyone else, thanks for all the tips! If any of you have anything else, I'll make sure to come back and see periodically.

[NCSUSousa]

Wow, based on this most recent post, it looks like you already had my points covered. Nicely done.

Best of luck finding a good horn to use through grad school.

[Stefan]

I just love the way on this forum people just go ahead and judge others. I am glad you posted that last post because perhaps someone will remember not to go assuming...

Anyway, yeah, having a nice tuba is a difficult thing for some people to acquire. There are some who are lucky enough to have parents who can afford to buy a great tuba. I recently sold my MW 2155 to a high school student intending to major in music. That's a tuba that took me many years well after college to afford. Lucky him and I wish him well.

As for me, I started out buying a used Cerveny Piggy while I was a freshman. There were intonation problems to overcome but I learned an awful lot on that tuba. I complained and wished for better the whole time but now I have a real appreciation for what I have.

I agree with you that going into a graduate program you ought to have a nicer tuba. Anyone who knows me knows that I am not afraid to build up some debt to get what I want. But you definitely have to KNOW that you will be capable of monthly payments - and not just the minimum. Used is the way to go for now unless you want to go for one of those Chinese clones. I say conservatively go for it. But don't get junk. Play everywhere you can - paid or not. Get a job as a waiter - pays much better than MCD's.

Stefan

[NCSUSousa]

In response to the question about financing:
Check with the Tuba Exchange.
My dad is friends with the repair tech - Mike Morse. We have watched some of the changes happen with the new ownership.

Their redesigned webpage lists a "Leasing and Financing" tab at the top of the page now.
They're not a sponser so I'm not going to link their webpage.

Also, stick with the name brand tubas. I have a less expensive TE horn. It's good, but not great. As a community band player, it does what I need.
If I was studying more seriously, I'd be looking for an upgrade.