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Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 6:22 pm
by jamesmanganaro
KiltieTuba wrote:For that matter, when is a good time - and I can't be bothered to search for it - to switch or start on a 4 valve?
When you find you have to often play low E or lower in tune and can afford to buy a 4 or 5 valve tuba?
Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:05 pm
by Bob Kolada
I'm somewhat extrapolating from a differently pitched three banger but with a good top pull on at least one of the valves, 123 combos are just fine. I like running three valve Eb's with an intune or just slightly flat third valve (for 23) and pulling 2 for 123 combos. On sousa I just slot it. Every sousa I've played has pretty wide slots.
KiltieTuba wrote:and I can't be bothered to search for it
Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 6:36 am
by pjv
For the record, 98% of the 'professional' music written doesn't go below the low E. Nor does the contra bass and the bass guitar (except those with extra strings or a neck extending thingy).
Low E's can be quite frequently asked for. If you can play them in tune (with or without pulling a slide) you're safe.
Most tubas, even if they do play well with privileged fingering, will not give a sound and resonance which will do the job down low. If you need to be playing down low, or really want to, than its time to buy.
-Pat
Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 7:53 am
by MackBrass
Sorry for the mis-spelling in this as I am writing from my BB and can't see what I am writing.
]Since your asking the question then I would say that your ready for at least a 4 valve tuba. Playing low EEE and even the low FFF is very difficult as they run very sharp on most horns even with a good 1st valve slide pull. With the 4 valve tuba you will be much closer to getting those nots in tune as well as playing your low CC and BB nat more in tune. 1and 3 and 123 valve combonation never realyy cut it well enough.
Having a 4th valve will take you nicely down to a low DDDb and pretty close without much of a fight. Also the 4th valve will give you a nice CC and a pretty close BB nat.
Having a 5th valve will give you everying down to peddle BBB to include a nice CCC and BBB nat.
Again, it seems as though since your asking I think its time to move on if it is possible to more valves.
If buying something else is not in the budget, getting the false tones below low EEE is possible but they don't slot well nor do they sound as good. With work and practice you can do it but it will take time.
The new old Cerveny 601 Kaiser I recently purchased will be getting a 5th valve very shortly so I don't have do pull multiple slide when play in the peddles.
Playing in that range takes not only a lot of practice but good ears as well, the lower you go the more you have to develope your ears. Most of us can't hear below the low AAA on the piano but I have found it possible to hear low FFFF as long as someone is playing the octave above. Even then I am feeling more for vibration than actual tuning until it gets there.
Good luck,
Tom
Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 11:13 am
by Steve Marcus
BBb Bass parts in brass band music call for range down to the BBb pedal and below that chromatically from the mid-range. They do include (concert pitch) BBB natural and CC as well as the open BBBb (on a BBb horn, of course) and, on occasion, even lower (actually written in some test pieces and other repertoire, not just ad lib octave doubling of existing higher parts).
Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 11:16 am
by cornholio
Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 2:06 pm
by Todd S. Malicoate
mctuba1 wrote:Most of us can't hear below the low AAA on the piano
This is simply not true.
Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 3:09 am
by Lectron
KiltieTuba wrote:....and I can't be bothered to search for it - to switch or start on a 4 valve?
I can't be bothered to depend on poorly slotted privilegeds.
Play a lot of music chromatically down to BBb natural (and below)
and want to keep that same rich sound also there
Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:26 pm
by Steve Marcus
Please clarify Elephant's last post by explaining:
Do bugles in corps read treble or bass clef? Are they transposing instruments as in British brass bands? For instance, if one were to play a concert GG on one of the old 2-valve GG contrabass bugles, would it be notated as the C (middle C) just below the treble staff? Likewise, on a BBb bugle, would its concert BBb (in concert notation, appearing below the 2nd ledger line of the bass clef) appear as C one ledger line below treble clef?
Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:27 am
by Mark
KiltieTuba wrote:I can't think of the last concert/wind band piece that I played with anything below Low Eb (Stars and Stripes Forever).
I can
not think of a concert I have played that did not have a work that went below Eb. I played a concert yesterday with two works that went down to C.
Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:36 pm
by Lectron
KiltieTuba wrote:
Pedal C (five lines down)?
The 3 test-pieces I've been involved in this year has all been down to C (five lines down)
and lower.
The Earth Wind & Fire arrangement I did last week was also C
Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:39 pm
by Mark
KiltieTuba wrote:Mark wrote:KiltieTuba wrote:I can't think of the last concert/wind band piece that I played with anything below Low Eb (Stars and Stripes Forever).
I can
not think of a concert I have played that did not have a work that went below Eb. I played a concert yesterday with two works that went down to C.
Pedal C (five lines down)?
What concert/wind band piece were those?
Yes that C, Gerard Schwarz - Above and Beyond and John Mackey - Kingfishers Catch Fire.
Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:14 pm
by bort
KiltieTuba wrote:Pedal C (five lines down)?
What concert/wind band piece were those?
I'm surprised that you're surprised! I don't have my parts anymore, but I've played several in the past year alone that go to pedal C.
Not to mention, sometimes the conductor asks to take it down an octave to give a desired effect. Playing the notes written on the page is only one component of performing a piece.
And of course, sometimes it's just a tubist's liberty to take it down an octave, but that's another story altogether.
Re: Tuning below Low E
Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:34 pm
by MartyNeilan
The big old Martin BBb tubas (recording basses) would play a great low E on a three valved horn; I preferred to grab the 1st or 3rd slide and give it a good tug to avoid any lipping.