TubeNet

Hi!

I am in grade 10 and plan to audition in a youth orchestra with tuba and euphonium. The problem is that while our school tubas are wonderful, all but one are three valve, and I am required to hit a low Eb. The 4 valve we have at school (a yamaha ybb 321) isn't too ergonomic, but worse, it's needing some work (still possible to play I guess). However, I can't argue with free.

The other option is to buy a used, and the only tuba in my area used (Hamilton, ON, CA) is a Yamaha 641, which from what I gathered is not too special (not very like), but it is only $1500, and I might be able to negotiate.

The last option is to rent a Jupiter 582L, but that'll cost $132 a month or 1k a year. If I keep the 641 until my senior year, it'll technically cost $50 a month if I even the 1500 over roughly 30 months.

Which option should carry me through? I know at my level, it's probably more of my skill level than the quality of the tuba, so maybe the 321 would work. I just want to hear an experienced opinion and settle my fears..

Very important to this decision are two facts you need to decide on:

1) How serious a player are you? By that, I mean how long do you intend to play tuba? Do you intend to pursue music as a profession? Are you just doing this in high school with no intention of playing past that? Answers to these types of questions can help you determine just how high quality an instrument you need.

2) How important is it to you to own your own instrument? There are definite benefits to owning your own horn, both in ease of access and improvements in your playing (assuming you use the thing). That said, you can probably borrow school instruments through college if you really wanted to and didn't care to spend your own money to own one. Since spending your money is your choice, only you can answer how important purchasing a horn is to you.

In my experience, there's pretty much no difference between what a 641 and a 321 can do. There are ergonomic differences between the horns but they function relatively the same. Neither is what I would call a "professional level" instrument, they are both what I would consider to be student models. if you intend to play for a living, you may want to look for something more upscale. Otherwise, either the 321 or the 641 will do everything you need to do for many years.

What solo or exercise are you going to play for the audition? Based on what you have said in your post, I'd stick with the 321. Play it the best you can. Buzz your prepared music on your mouthpiece with the best tone possible that you can produce on the mouthpiece, blowing onto your palm making sure you feel a constant air flow while playing the music. Along with this and other advice you can get from your teacher, you may find you can do pretty well on that school-owned 321, as long as there are no major physical problems with the instrument (air leaks from holes, corks on water valves in good shape,etc.) I've found that sometimes the equipment can be a factor, but you can find articles here on TubeNet where the quality of preparation determines success more often than the quality of equipment you have to use. Just my .02 for what it's worth.

Vokes

Thanks so much for the quick responses. It really helps me.

In regards to playing beyond high school, it is a very definite possibility. I am not planning to major in performance, but I still want to play tuba onwards.

I would say that I'm mainly a tuba player (played from grade 7 up, and played euph grade 6 and now this year), however my current band director pressured me to switch to play euphonium in the 'symphonic' (highest level) band due to the fact that we already have two tubas and a somewhat quiet euphonist. That means if I don't make the auditions (I will ), I won't have much opportunity to play tuba (there is a marching band north of me that I will join in the summer).

This is the excerpt that I have to play (it's a PDF):
http://hpyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011 ... cerpts.pdf

Our school doesn't have a marching band, but they do have a King brass sousa. I haven't played it in a while, but I may have done some fake tones (I definitely did a few on my old sousa at my previous high school). It was more of me messing around so it's something to practice.

In regards to three valve tubas, I believe I use a Besson 2-20, but I'm not sure. It's an average sized tuba with three valves. There is a Boosey and Hawkes 3 valve (not sure what it is) that I could use.

Here's the link for the used Yamaha 641:
http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/msg/3711831740.html

My current plan is to stick with the 321 and maybe put the money into lessons or a fancy CC tuba for university. Thanks again for the quick response!

Okay, I've seen the orchestral excerpt. It is possible like some have suggested to play the low Eb in open as a false tone (you've only got one in this particular passage). Good luck! Work on keeping the false tone steady( steady air flow/control)- it will take some time but it is definitely possible.

While the OPs positive attitude is appreciated, is it really realistic that a 10th grader is going to win an audition with a youth orchestra in a large metropolitan area accepting musicians up to age 24?

With that realism in mind, don't sweat the low Eb. Play on whatever instrument is easiest for you to practice on and sound best on. Take the Eb up an octave if you can't get a solid false tone or work it out in another way. It will make ZERO difference in the overall audition. For goodness sake, don't buy a tuba just for this audition and the slim chance of getting to play with this group next year.

That said, get mad at me for daring to question your chances and go win the spot.

A sponsor here often has instruments in your price range, and they look attractive to me. viewtopic.php?t=52962" target="_blank" target="_blank
Google Jason Bouchard if you want to research the shop.

KiltieTuba wrote:Why do you need to spend the $$$$$ on a CC?

I was just throwing in one of those "money pit alternate plans" kind of thing. I think I'll cross the university bridge when I get there.

bloke wrote:A Besson 2-20 is a very small tuba with a 15" bell. It probably won't give you a very easy "fake" low Eb.

The Yamaha 641 looks distressed (do I see a patched mouthpipe tube?), but probably worth $1500.

I didn't notice the mouthpipe part. $1500 may be a good price, but I'll think I'll pass on it. I don't know much about tuba conditions and problems to look for, and it's a chance that could end badly. I'm actually not sure if it's a 2-20 tuba that I use at school, but I'm sure it's a Besson.

Todd S. Malicoate wrote:While the OPs positive attitude is appreciated, is it really realistic that a 10th grader is going to win an audition with a youth orchestra in a large metropolitan area accepting musicians up to age 24?

With that realism in mind, don't sweat the low Eb. Play on whatever instrument is easiest for you to practice on and sound best on. Take the Eb up an octave if you can't get a solid false tone or work it out in another way. It will make ZERO difference in the overall audition. For goodness sake, don't buy a tuba just for this audition and the slim chance of getting to play with this group next year.

That said, get mad at me for daring to question your chances and go win the spot.

That's actually a very good point. While, I'd probably use the tuba everywhere else I play tuba, It seems the 321 is roughly the 'same' (using the term loosely). To be straight, I have not much of an idea what to expect from the auditions, but I could wager it is something that is going to be harder than most things I've done before. That said, it will provide me with a solid challenge that, not to boast, I don't really have here at my high school's band. I'd rather lose $20 audition fee than to lose $1520 with a tuba that I don't need and the audition fee. If I don't make the audition with the 321 or any other tuba, I doubt that the 641 would help my chances much at all; the fault would lie on me.

The school's tubas are at school, so I definitely try out each one with the audition stuff. Thanks again for all the help and clearing some of my misconceptions.

swillafew wrote:A sponsor here often has instruments in your price range, and they look attractive to me. viewtopic.php?t=52962" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
Google Jason Bouchard if you want to research the shop.

That listing might be out of date- I don't see any of those horns on the website now. The link is:

http://northernlowbrass.webs.com/apps/webstore/" target="_blank

I've never dealt with Jason personally, but he is well thought of here.

Bloke is correct about the King sousaphone. It has one of the best open low E-flats that you can find in the world of tubas. That note is not so good on the Besson 2-20, but it can be done. Practice it on the King, then transfer the skill to the Besson or whatever horn is available. You will find it a lot easier (and better-sounding) if your mouthpiece is something like a Bach (or Kelly or Blessing) 18, rather than a 24AW.

If you are going to buy a tuba I would suggest looking for a Conn 12J or an Olds O-99, or a front-action King. The Conn and Olds are bigger than the Besson 2-20 but still small enough to carry around easily. The Kings are bigger and more cumbersome, but good horns. They are all 3-valve instruments with good false pedal notes and generally good intonation. Some day you will want a four-valve tuba, but you should get a good one that is comfortable for you, not just any student model.

So, is everyone saying that if he plays everything else on the audition really well and better than anyone else, then...

he'll "lose" the audition simply for taking the low Eb up an octave?

I really don't think so. Prokofiev won't start spinning in his grave or anything.

I think there is something about King horns and the low end; I have a 3 valve upright from around 1900 and I can hit any note below low F and it sounds fantastic.

Just play your part as well as you can, on the instrument you play the most and are the most comfortable.

I auditioned for an orchestra on a sousaphone in the 9th grade, and was permitted to bring it to rehearsals, but was asked to bring something else to the concert. The other instrument available to me was a 3 valve horn with a recording bell, so I don't know how much that accomplished.

I didn't get an instrument of my own for another 6 years.

I tried the tubas at my school today.

The King Sousa worked great (and is mighty pretty too) and I can hit the Eb pretty nicely. There's a Boosey & Hawkes tuba aswell, and I would say it's about even with the Besson 2-20 in terms of hitting the Eb, which is harder than the sousa. The main problem with using concert tubas is that it is the school tubas, and other people use them. I can use the tubas, but I would have to walk from home to school (and vice versa) everyday. Nobody uses the King.

At this point, I am leaning to audition with the King sousa as I have free reign (and extra cred at school as I'm the only one who actually marched before (at my previous high school). If I don't make auditions, oh well, I still have a few more years to audition. I am going to feel rather silly though.

I might still try the Besson or B&H. They're good instruments, but it's gonna take some practice. But since when was practice a bad thing?

My experience has been that most people (including musicians and conductors) don't see the difference between sousaphones and other tubas. For example: the first time I played my black helicon in public there was a good jazz saxophonist in the band with whom I had played a lot of gigs on upright tuba. He didn't ask "what the hell is that thing", but rather, "why did you paint your tuba black?".