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my Sanders was a Cerveny...Piggy. both names on the bell. therein lies a 3rd option.

Joe... the word 'Imperial' engraved by the 'Sanders' logo should be convincing enough. I've posted these images before. Notice that the back plate on the backside of the bell harness loop is smaller than normal. The thumbring has an oval profile. The leadpipe brace is narrow and is actually hollow on the backside. The 'keel' is also hollow on the backside. Of course... one actually has to have the horn apart to see some of these things. The best way I can describe the attributes of the braces, etc. is by using the work 'cheesy'.... one of those terms that's really difficult to quantify.

I know some of this stuff is difficult to detect from simple pictures. If I didn't know the subtle differences myself... I would argue that this horn was made in Czechoslovakia.

Don't pay any attention to the bow guard wires. That is 'stick-on' sousaphone molding.

All that being said... the particular instrument in these pictures IS NOT a bad horn. It was probably made in the early 80's and plays as well as any of the other B & S-made stencils I've seen.

This horn is still in town. I suppose I could borrow it for some close-up images.

eupher61 wrote:my Sanders was a Cerveny...Piggy. both names on the bell. therein lies a 3rd option.

I've seen one of those too.

The PT-3 I played in college was also marked with both B&S and Sanders logos on the bell.

My early-80's Sanders Model SM-1314U was a Cerveny, through and through. "Made in Czechoslovakia" on the receiver, and stick-on label that said "Sanders" (and probably "Amati" underneath it). Low-grade plastic ball joint linkages, which I replaced. 0.795 bore. Not a bad horn, but a soft dent-magnet. It had curved paddles, the way the Czech and older DDR horns often did, but open-wire springs.

Weren't all the "imperial" models made in China?

Don't they all have Country of Origin markings, as is required by law?

But I remember the ads from that era. Custom Music had "Sanders" models (Cerveny), "B&S Sanders" models, and "B&S Parantucci" models. These were all clearly distinguished in the ads, and the B&S tubas were always easily identified by the shape of the thumb-ring flange. Later, they had "Sanders Imperial" models, from you-know-where.

Rick "thinking Sanders is a gray area" Denney

This Sanders 'Imperial' just popped-up on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tuba-Sanders-Im ... 257da2a0b0

Still not detailed enough images except of the bow guard in picture #5.