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I am in a local community band and I sometimes play Eb tuba ( when not needed on cornet). I have been told by the director ( a tuba player) and the tuba section that they really do not Eb tuba. I am wondering why in America there seems to be a dislike of Eb .

I don't think your anecdotal experience should be extrapolated to assume an opinion held by an entire country.

Tell them don't worry, you'll play it in BBb.

From the Bobo link:

"Because the Eb was British and the instrument Elgar envisioned for the Enigma Variations I decided to try it. It worked great BUT it simply did not have the mass for the more powerful parts of this work therefore the CC was much better and in the lighter passages the F was a much more homogeneous member of the brass."

An Eb tuba probably did fit just fine when the Enigma Variations were composed in 1898 or so, back when brass bores, especially trombone, were smaller overall and color, not power, was the primary musical factor.

Play it in tune and in the proper style for the music. If they don't like it, tell them to go suck eggs.

Now I know this is a novel approach -- but -- have you actually asked them in a nice non-confrontational way as to their reasoning for not wanting Eb?

Sometimes you will see bands where there is a guy on a small Eb trying to keep up with large contrabasses and just overblowing the horn to distortion providing a very ugly sound. I'm not saying this is what you are doing, but it is possible they have had a previous bad experience with someone who did this causing their distorted bias.

The Big Ben wrote:Play it in tune and in the proper style for the music. If they don't like it, tell them to go suck eggs.

+1

Ace

Could be about the instrumentation of that particular band rather than anything about bass tubas in general.

I'm still wondering how we got from a couple of folks in a band somewhere and an article by Roger Bobo to "America dislikes Eb tubas."

I like them just fine. I'm an American. Do I count?

I don't find it really surprising. I mean, not that I ever spent much time around real concert bands, and one of the two I did partake of years ago did have a highly valued player on Eb, but ... this being the Internet and all, prepare to respect my uninformed opinions ...

Bass tuba was forgotten generations ago in US band music. It isn't clearly called for in the repertoire, it isn't part of the basic band experience in school, etc. When you bring a bass tuba, you're either claiming a place for yourself that band players may very well not recognize ... or you're claiming the ability to play contrabass tuba on a bass tuba. Neither of these is guaranteed to go over well, for different reasons.

[ ... do they pay you to play? Ha ha ha ... that's one reason I don't do it. Not that I demand to be paid, but I draw the line at paying to play. ]

Donn wrote:When you bring a bass tuba, you're either claiming a place for yourself that band players may very well not recognize ... or you're claiming the ability to play contrabass tuba on a bass tuba. Neither of these is guaranteed to go over well, for different reasons.

This.

Maybe if the director knows you own multiple tubas, then he could request that you bring (or not bring) a certain instrument. But if it's all you have, and it's not somehow crazy, sounds like crap, etc., then whatever. Tell him to buy you a BBb and then you'll play it. But until then, you will bring and play the one tuba you have.

Donn wrote:When you bring a bass tuba, you're either claiming a place for yourself that band players may very well not recognize ... or you're claiming the ability to play contrabass tuba on a bass tuba. Neither of these is guaranteed to go over well, for different reasons.

I've played in lots of community bands, and thankfully none where anyone is so fragile as to give a damn about anything like that. Goodness, the guy is leaving the trumpet section to play tuba, and experiences all of the ego BS in the tuba section? Yeah right!

I have never experienced this problem in the bands I play with in Ireland.
The norm over here is usually two on Bb and two on Eb.
The only Eb tuba that I have been asked not to bring again is my travel tuba.

Our local community band has a long-timer that always sits in the back of the section with his small 3-valved Eb. If anyone told him they "didn't like" him playing Eb, I imagine there would be one of two responses:

1) He would simply not come any more

or

2) He would tell them where they could stick their opinion.

iiipopes wrote:From the Bobo link:

"Because the Eb was British and the instrument Elgar envisioned for the Enigma Variations I decided to try it. It worked great BUT it simply did not have the mass for the more powerful parts of this work therefore the CC was much better and in the lighter passages the F was a much more homogeneous member of the brass."

An Eb tuba probably did fit just fine when the Enigma Variations were composed in 1898 or so, back when brass bores, especially trombone, were smaller overall and color, not power, was the primary musical factor.

Except it would've been written with the F tuba in mind, not Eb.

I play an Eb in 3 community bands. Two bands play older music and the "upper" bass part sound is a great addition to the other bass which is usually a BBb. The third is more contemporary. The Eb is welcome and liked there too. I have always been welcomed and so has my Eb in any group I have played with over the years. So, based on my limited experience, an Eb is a welcome addition to community bands in the U.S. As for Master Bob's comment about an Eb only being pretty and not having a rich variation in sound, I offer the example of Oystein Baadsvik. If his playing is just "pretty", then playing pretty is good enough for me. With all due respect Master Bobo, I disagree with your opinion.

Donn wrote: Bass tuba was forgotten generations ago in US band music. It isn't clearly called for in the repertoire, it isn't part of the basic band experience in school, etc.

Such has not been my experience in comunity bands. Much of the music we play has tuba parts written divisi, and the upper line is often uncomfortably high for the kind of BBb players found in community bands. Having an Eb around to play the upper line makes life a lot easier; There is a de-facto division of labor between bass (Eb, playing the upper line)) and contrabass (BBb, playing the lower line) - bands without an Eb often simply leave the top line out.

Actually, of course, a four valve Eb can play down into the contra bass octave, so it can cover pretty much any part you're likely to see in a community band. Below four or five leger lines can get a bit stuffy, and hard work, so it's nice to have a BBb around to do the grunt work in pedal-land, but not absolutely necessary. On the whole, if you have to be the only tuba in a community band, a four valve Eb with a sensibly large mouthpiece like a Denis Wick 2 is probably your best bet.

One of the reasons the conductor does not like Eb is they are squirrelly on intonation. My self I have been working a lot with a tuner and alternative fingering. The section leader says the Eb doesn't have the warm sound (he says to open up my throat more but it's an Eb so it is going to sound different). The band has access to BBb so the aforementioned people would prefer BBb. The band is really a great bunch folk. If I ONLY could play Effer they would be fine with it. So in rereading the original post I should have asked why do people NOT like Eb tuba.

brassbow wrote:One of the reasons the conductor does not like Eb is they are squirrelly on intonation. My self I have been working a lot with a tuner and alternative fingering. The section leader says the Eb doesn't have the warm sound (he says to open up my throat more but it's an Eb so it is going to sound different). The band has access to BBb so the aforementioned people would prefer BBb. The band is really a great bunch folk. If I ONLY could play Effer they would be fine with it. So in rereading the original post I should have asked why do people NOT like Eb tuba.

1. That's what you asked in your OP. I still wonder why you think, based on just your anecdotal experience, that most or even many people don't like Eb tuba. I'll postulate that most don't care.

2. Saying Eb tubas have funky intonation is another over-generalization.

3. Your section leader needs to listen to more Baadsvik if he thinks the key of the tuba is what determines a "warm sound."

4. I'm still amazed that a community band would even consider telling a new player what type of instrument they would "prefer" he played. Doesn't sound like a great bunch of folk to me. It sounds more like a bunch of people who spend way too much time worrying about things that, frankly, don't matter.

brassbow wrote:I am in a local community band and I sometimes play Eb tuba ( when not needed on cornet). I have been told by the director ( a tuba player) and the tuba section that they really do not Eb tuba. I am wondering why in America there seems to be a dislike of Eb .

I wonder how it would set if the Eb guys in our brass band came in with BBb tubas to flop and tweet around in the upper register!

Concert band arrangements just aren't written in the range for an EEb tuba... anymore.

As far as the comments about an EEb tuba with a 4th valve having low-range capabilities like a BBb tuba... not hardly! The range might be doable but the timbre certainly isn't the same.

That being said.... ANY key tuba is welcome in my community band as long as it is played reasonably well and blends with the rest of the section. Basically... out motto is "If it's written too high for you, play it down and octave". "If it's written too low for you, play it up an octave". "If it's not in a range you can play... do no harm".