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Several years ago I looked with no success for Mariache scores. I found just one or two very expensive hand-written manuscripts. Does anyone know of any printed Mariache music? With the current popularity I figured it might be time to look again.

This style of music where the tuba is so prominent is generally referred to as banda music around Texas. In the recordings I've heard, the Sousaphone player is almost always the most outstanding player in the group by US standards. The recorded sound these guys get on sousaphone is amazing. Makes very me jealous.

Mariachi is a different kind of music than banda There are no real mariachi scores. It's folk music and not often written and never scored. (There's no conductor, why do you need a score?) It's like small jazz groups, you have to learn the tunes.

I suggest you contact Richard Morgan at Texas A&M University in Kingsville, TX for what scores may be avaiable. He did quite a study on Mariachi for several years.

Richard may not forgive me for this.

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You gotta like a place and style where tuba is the norm in mainstream/pop music...

I think it would be great if some of those dudes would be contacted by/included into ITEC -- it would be way cool to hear what they have to say about what they do/where and how they learned it etc!! I agree, it is great stuff and there are some great players doing it -- spreading the good tuba WORD!


joe

When I worked for the City of San Antonio, I'd be working late in the evenings at my office on Main Plaza during Fiesta. (We always worked long hourse during Fiesta.) In the plaza, they would have bands playing music into the night as part of the Fiesta activities, and I was compelled to listen to it. The solidity of a 70-year-old building was not enough to keep me from hearing the bass line, which was usually played on electric bass.

It was conjunto and tejano music, which are strongly influenced by the polka style brought over by the hordes of German immigrants also in the area, and uniquely Texan. Typical instrumentation is classic beer-tent: Bass, accordion, perhaps clarinet, maybe violin, and voice.

Here in Virginia, we have lots of, um, guest workers because of our booming construction industry. Thus, the local Mexican Foodery chooses it's background music carefully so as to please the workers. I'm quite sure I've heard all the groups mentioned here, particularly the ones where the tuba player totally overwhelms the other players, and the one where the trumpets seem like they got stuck in Autotune Hell. But the basic music is still the same.

Neither is really like mariachi music, which is more soulful and stylized.

I enjoy it while I'm eating my enchiladas, but when it pounds through the wall it gets old, heh, heh.

Rick "who eats too much Mexican food, even the bad stuff here in Virginia" Denney

We were in Mexico in January, stopped by a CD seller in a market... got a CD by Banda M

The tuba guy is like from Mars! He does amazing things in a piece called El Coyote. Lots of tripple tongueing.
'
This stuff is great!! Bounces my SUV stopped at a traffic light.

That banda music is fun to listen to. If you would like to hear some seriously(and I mean seriously) good playing, get a recording of Mariachi Vargas. It may be mariachi music, but the quality is top notch. Even this"bolillo"(sp?) has a CD. I believe they set the standard. It is a standard which is seldom even approached here is San Antonio. Please bear in mind that in San Antonio, one is never more than 10 minutes removed from a (usually bad) live mariachi performance.

Every other station on the AM and FM dial here in Los Angeles is Spanish these days. It's kind of funny, but one of the most common instruments to hear on the radio is the tuba. I hear it while driving, outside my studio, and virtually everywhere I go in public, and my all means could do without it!

I could also do without the fact that I live in a bankrupt state where illeagal aliens come across the border to get free health care and schooling on my dime. No to mention the fact that L.A. radio isn't any good, because the Spanish stations get all the ratings and more and more are switching over all the time.

I took Spanish in high school and college and could never get over the feeling that the language just sounded stupid. Double negatives and a loss of expressive words abound. No wonder is is so easy for the Catholic church to deceive so many Spanish speakers worldwide.

There is no solution to the problem in California, the United States, and around the world that man can think up. Someday soon God is returning to earth to bring justice on His people and free this world of Satan's governement. The time of Jacob's trouble is here now! Until then, I'll just have to change the station.

MellowSmokeMan wrote: I took Spanish in high school and college and could never get over the feeling that the language just sounded stupid. Double negatives and a loss of expressive words abound. No wonder is is so easy for the Catholic church to deceive so many Spanish speakers worldwide.

Hmmm, non-expressive language? Didn't seem to stop Cervantes, Lope de Vega, Jorge Luis Borges, or a whole host of other authors from writing expressively.

Double negatives are not uncommon in other languages.

...and the Catholics may say that it's the protestants who are being deceived. It all depends on one's viewpoint.

The Spanish-speaking world has a legacy of music and musicians that could be the envy of the English speaking world. I strongly encourage you to put aside your prejudices and explore it. You won't be disappointed.

Chuck(G) wrote:Double negatives are not uncommon in other languages.

Slid that one right in there, didn't you?

Rick "who can say stupid things in any language" Denney

I suppose I should have been clear. Protestants aren't any less deceived than Catholics. Just because they don't worship water stains under freeway bridges doesn't mean I think they are any less decieved. It's the Spanish language itself. How many words are there in the Websters unabridged Spanish Dicionary? How well can the original Greek and Hebrew texts of the Bible be translated into Spanish?

Christianity as a whole is still under heavy influence of the Roman church, as seen in their continued worship on Sunday and observance of pagan holidays like Easter and X-mas.

And of course, I should have been clearer about my taste for Latin music. I have performed with some of the greatest Latin musicians and consider many of them my friends. I dig Latin Jazz and rhythms, and even write them into my work when needed. These banda groups that I hear every day coming from 800 watt car stereos down Venice blvd. may have a lot of tuba, but they don't have a lot of soul. I could do without the language entirely.

Rick Denney wrote:

Chuck(G) wrote:Double negatives are not uncommon in other languages.

Slid that one right in there, didn't you?

Zut alors! Je ne sais pas.

Tony E wrote:I've never had any difficulty translating Homeric, Clasical, Koine, or Literary Koine into Spanish. I've never tried Hebrew, but don't see why it would be problematic, as Coptic and several other cognates clearly translate very nicely into Spanish. Perhaps you could explain what difficulty you're encountering?

Very astute observation, Tony! Spanish is cognate with Latin is congnate with Greek. Although English has a fair sized gob of Romance in it, it's usually classified as Germanic; i.e., cognate with Gothic. So it's not unreasonable to expect that Romance language speakers might have an edge when it comes to translation from Greek.

Of course, that means Hebrew might be best translated into Arabic...

Kreisson siopan estin e lalein paten

Hey yall,
Glad to see some mention of Banda, which is probably the most popular musical outlet for sousaphone players in the world. I recommend reading Banda: Mexican Musical Life Across Borders by Helen Simonett to learn more about it.
The typical "Banda" has 3 valve trombones, 2 alto horns, 3 trumpets, 3 clarinets, sousaphone, and 2 percussionists. In some of the older pictures from Simonett's book the bands use Eb tubas or even Sarrusaphones. All the modern bandas use sousaphones.
Anyone interested in this music should check out the excellent historical compilation Bandas Sinaloenses: Musica Tambora (Arhoolie) or the more modern overview of the most famous banda, Banda Sinaloense El Recodo De Cruz Lizarraga: Coleccion RCA 100 Anos de Musica (RCA)
In addition I have transcribed 3 or 4 complete charts with all parts for a band I play in, Slavic Soul Party. If anyone is interested in the charts pm me and maybe we could work something out. If anyone is interested in the band, visit our website www.slavicsoulparty.com and come to a show in NY.

Banda music is soooooo cool!!! It's tough though because most of it is improvisation which I suck at. But boy do I love to listen to it....



Ralph

Jacobg mentions Sarrusaphones! What a honker of a bass instrument that is! Back in the late 1940s we had a bass one in our hi school and I took a crack at working it. Big rough tone.

Incidentally, this repertoire makes excellent concert band arrangements, as the bandas are basically a regional adaptation of European military, missionary, and village bands. In the 40's, they picked up elements from American swing bands, hence the three tpts and three trombones and brash contrasts between sections. I have a friend who has adapted some of my transcriptions for a high school big band with much success.
In Helen Simonnett's book, she details how many bands provided entertainment for the town for every occasion. Repertoire included regional music, American swing hits, mambos, danzons, European waltzes, and even Verdi overtures and light classical fare. Later they adapted ranchero, funk, pop, and cumbia.
Only in the past 20 years or so have they become vehicles for pop singers like Thalia; they were previously instrumental. They still adopt the practice of saving the drums for loud instrumental sections while backing up the singers with only horns.

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