Some questions about sousaphones.

[Viktor]

Hello! Im a doublebass player who have started to learn to play the tuba. My goal is to play in a jazz/funk brass band like the rebirth brass band. I bought a used sousaphone some months ago but it intonates pretty bad. Maybe it's me but when i comare it with my tuba its harder to play and to intonate. It's one of those cheap sousaphones from India so I suspect it isn't the best quality instrument. Is there anything i can do with it or should I by another one? I live in Sweden and there isn't many sousaphones around to look at.
I have found a 25 year old Swallow sousaphone (pic). have anybody heard of these? Or else there is sousaphones to by from Thomann http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_sousap ... _brass.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank It lookes god but it's hard to know without testing it first. Does anyone know anything about those sousas?
Another question: Now when i have learned to play with four valves on my tuba, I think i want to have a four valve sousaphone. Is that a stupid idea?

[sousaphone68]

Hello and welcome
Indian Sousaphones are usually in Eb and as you have discovered not much good.
Thomann sousaphones are made in China another UK member of this forum tried a fiberglass one but sent it back due to poor finishing of the bell tenon.
My marching band bought one from a UK supplier in white plastic it plays well but if I had to buy one again I would get it in brass we bought the plastic one to save weight for the young payers but it is as heavy as brass.
A four valve sousaphone is handy to have but usually heavier when compared to a 3 valve one. A lot of the three valved sousaphones have good fake tones that make a 4th valve unnecessary.

I bought my Conn 26k from the US and imported it to Ireland freight and taxes cost €600 four years ago on top of the purchase price.

There are several sponsors of this site based in the US and the UK who may be able to hook you up with either a good used sousaphone or a new one.

Whatever you buy make sure it has a good hard case and a goose neck and tuning bits.

[Donn]

It's one of those cheap sousaphones from India so I suspect it isn't the best quality instrument. Is there anything i can do with it or should I by another one?

Yes. There is no real hope for this one.

I have found a 25 year old Swallow sousaphone (pic). have anybody heard of these? Or else there is sousaphones to by from Thomann http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_sousap ... _brass.htm It lookes god but it's hard to know without testing it first. Does anyone know anything about those sousas?

I don't recall the name Swallow, but the picture doesn't look good to me - very slender, isn't it? Small is good, for your purposes I think, but this is too small. I don't know anything about the Thomann, either, but if I were going to have to buy a Chinese sousaphone, I would try to at least not invest much money in it.

Another question: Now when i have learned to play with four valves on my tuba, I think i want to have a four valve sousaphone. Is that a stupid idea?

Yes! I had the same problem - that is, I stupidly thought 4 valves would be a good idea - and I have a sousaphone that's much heavier and more expensive than it needed to be. I don't mind, since it's also a very good instrument, but it wasn't really a good idea. It made sense at the time it was made (1926 if I remember right), when it would have been used as the bass in a dance band or something. It really isn't for marching around with.

[Viktor]

Ok, Thanks for the advice! Maybe i will consider importing one from the Unated states but it seems like risky buisness not to be able to play it first. Most sellers on ebay only send inside the U.S.A so it can be hard to convince them to send it here. Whewe can I by used sousaphones in Europe? Germany?

[mjrctuba]

If you decide you want to buy another horn, I recommend "WTB in Europe" post in the "For Sale" section of Tubenet. Maybe someone will see it. Also, I think your odds of getting ripped off go down considerably when you go through Tubenet. There are no guarantees, but it's safer than Ebay.

A friend of mine in the US Air Force Band Europe said something once about their buying new Jupiter sousaphones. I don't know what they did with their old ones. I don't know if the US military sells their old stock or just stores them.

I'm betting your best bet will be to find and ask as many tuba players in Europe as you can. Someone will know about a good buy on a horn.

Good luck!

[Donn]

Ja, es gibt some sousaphones on the German ebay site. And one seller who apparently just uses it to advertise their shop in Düsseldorf? Looks like they have some good instruments, will send anywhere, and may know how to pack and send a sousaphone without grave risk of damage. I have almost no experience with sousaphones of fiberglass or other resin material, but if that appeals to you at all, they travel well, are fun to play and sound pretty good.

In Germany, though, helicon seems to be more the classic choice. Something to think about, if you haven't already. There's some thought that between the two, the helicon sounds more like a regular tuba. The bell-to-ear geometry is more like a tuba (sousaphone is hard to play well partly because the bell is in front of you facing away, so you don't hear very well.) You can pass under overhead obstacles, ceilings etc. with less trouble. It can be lighter and more comfortable, and it looks cool. On the down side, it usually is less adjustable to accommodate your stature etc., it tends to knock people over on your left side, and some of them are old designs made for European military use that don't necessarily offer ideal intonation.

[imperialbari]

The Indian sousaphones actually used to be in tenor Bb.

Like with the Indian instruments I never would swallow a Swallow brass of any size.

I haven't had my attention on the European sousaphone market recently, but there used to be a retailer in the Köln area who specialized in US made sousaphones who announced on the German and sometimes also on the UK eBay. There are a lot of Amati sousaphones in German carnival bands. Very bad instruments.

I have two 4 pistons and one 3 pistons Conn sousaphones. The 4 valve ones are great, but also a huge burden on your shoulder. Best compromise would be a 3 valve sousaphone with a slide in the top crook of the 1st valve loop. That will allow for on the fly adjustments of critical notes.

Klaus

[sousaphone68]

Alt URL: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sousaphon-Con ... 0988874265" target="_blank


Fibre glass Conn 20k in Düsseldorf might be worth a look price is a little high.

[imperialbari]

The photos don't tell whether the top crook of the 1st loop is pullable. That is a point I would ask about.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

Are a Holton and a Jupiter recommendable over a Conn? I would go with the Conn if it has no problems.

Klaus

[Donn]

Tubenet member fulerzoo had good things to say about his Holton of similar vintage recently. Apparently at least loosely comparable to a 14K, which would be good for NOLA brass band.

Also came across a Tubenet testimonial for the shop in Düsseldorf, sounds like they're good guys.

[solomon]

hi there,
here´s the link to to shop in Düsseldorf.
http://www.usa-vintage-saxophon.de" target="_blank" target="_blank
They have serveral sousaphones not only the ones posted starting from 1199 €. Axel is a very nice guy ;you should give him a call. He will ship also but I would recommend buy a ticket to Germany and arrange a date to try ALL sousaphone he has. It cost 50 Euros to get is back to sweden (aditional to our plain ticket). I do it all the time when I´m playing in Herräng swing dance festival. PM me if you need more details.

[eupher61]

if it matters, the Dirty Dozen and a couple other NOLA bands ( which, I can't confirm right now) use Jupiter souzies. Quality is good, and pretty consistent any more.

[sousaphone68]

If you fancy making an impression try this one.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sousaphon-Sousaf ... 0401476%26" target="_blank

Not sure of its country of origin Guggenmusik usually means Indian on eBay

[David Richoux]

If you fancy making an impression try this one.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sousaphon-Sousaf ... 0401476%26" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Not sure of its country of origin Guggenmusik usually means Indian on eBay

For those not aware of the term "Guggenmusik" this Wiki article seems to sum it up pretty well.
(The term in that article that translates as "false music") means that they do not try for perfection - not over rehearsed.) They usually have one or two Sousaphones in the ensemble.
I first heard about Guggenmusik many years ago playing in Los Trancos Woods Community Marching Band - Swiss tourists to San Francisco often asked if we were a "Guggie" band and they couldn't explain what that meant in English. It was many years later that I stumbled on to the website of a group from Basel and then discovered the hundreds (thousands?) of bands that are doing this thing!

[imperialbari]

If you fancy making an impression try this one.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sousaphon-Sousaf ... 0401476%26" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Not sure of its country of origin Guggenmusik usually means Indian on eBay

Photo not great, but this one could be a Conn Eb, taking it beyond the Guggenmusik sphere.

The Dutch also have bands similar to Guggenmusik. Aside of maybe rhythm those carnival bands don't put much weight on the same parameters that real musicians work to optimize like sound and intonation.

Klaus

[sousaphone68]

In the context of eBay listings Guggenmusik usually means to me an Indian Sousa there is a repeat listing for a Swiss seller that uses this description for Indian made horns.
I am aware that its proper use is for a street music groups.

[David Richoux]

If you fancy making an impression try this one.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sousaphon-Sousaf ... 0401476%26" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Not sure of its country of origin Guggenmusik usually means Indian on eBay

Photo not great, but this one could be a Conn Eb, taking it beyond the Guggenmusik sphere.

The Dutch also have bands similar to Guggenmusik. Aside of maybe rhythm those carnival bands don't put much weight on the same parameters that real musicians work to optimize like sound and intonation.

Klaus

Yes - I was the one who added the Wiki note about "Dweilorkest" - very similar in style!

[David Richoux]

In the context of eBay listings Guggenmusik usually means to me an Indian Sousa there is a repeat listing for a Swiss seller that uses this description for Indian made horns.
I am aware that its proper use is for a street music groups.

Just trying to expand the general knowledge level of the list The topic of amateur and professional "popular" brass bands from around the world is of great interest to me.

BTW, if anyone will be in Rome June 21-23 of this year there will be an international gathering of Street Bands called Sbandata Romana - I have heard (and/or played with) several of the groups who will be there. Like the Honk! Festivals in the USA, there will be many tubas, helicons, Sousaphones and other low brasses playing all over the place!

[butch]

In the context of eBay listings Guggenmusik usually means to me an Indian Sousa there is a repeat listing for a Swiss seller that uses this description for Indian made horns.
I am aware that its proper use is for a street music groups.

I play in a "Guggenmusik" and I know a lot of other sousaphone players from other bands and I don't know anyone who plays an indian made sousaphone!

Regards
Butch