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i am looking for a tuba to save up for now which would be better a nickel st Petersburg 202 BBb tuba or a tuba exchange model 1915L. I currently play a tuba exchange model 2110L.

link for tuba exchange model 1915L: http://www.tubaexchange.com/tubas/te-1915l" target="_blank" target="_blank

link for st Petersburg 202 BBb tuba: http: //www.tubaexchange.com/tubas/st-petersburg-model-202

Thank you if you can help to shed some light on this.

In all honesty, it doesn't matter what other people think, the money and the choice are yours and only yours. You should take the time that you are saving up for your instrument to make up your own mind based on your own criteria. Play them both and choose the one you like the best.

Yes, why?

And no matter what the specs say or what opinions other people give you, PLAY TEST. Don't buy sight unseen. Horn preference comes from many, many factors, and it's possible that a horn that looks great on paper and has many glowing reviews may simply not work for you. Been there, done that.

Even if a seller advertises that they allow returns within XX days, you'll still have to pay shipping. With tubas, that can run into a considerable chunk of change, after which you'll have gained little more than experience and a lighter wallet.

Keep an eye on the used instruments of the tuba exchange and be patient. Over a period of time a lot of good horns will go through and you will educate yourself about what used horns are worth in terms of a sale price. I bought one from them that is older than me (and that's plenty old) and it works great.

goodgigs wrote:I currently play a tuba exchange model 2110L.

Dear sir, What's wrong with the horn you've got ?

1915L = 5/4, 5v

2110L = 4/4, 4v

I play a tuba exchange 2110 but i don't own it, its a rental. i want to buy a tuba but i want to know whats best out of my 2 favorites the 1915 and the st Petersburg. and what do you prefer brass tubas or nickel/silver tubas and why.

Short answer - Drive to Durham, try them yourself. Don't make a decision without trying the horns. Bring 1-2 mouthpieces so you get to play each with a mouthpiece that you're comfortable with. These 2 horns are priced at $3300-$3600 (remember you'll have to pay +7% sales tax in NC) so you should be willing to spend another ~5% on a hotel room and some gas to get here.

About the models you've asked about:
I've played a St. Pete 202N, a TE-2110 and a Miraphone 191-4, but not a TE-1915. Please note that I say I've played 'a' horn, not played 'the' horn. Each horn has some differences so it's important to try them before buying. I also haven't owned each, just spent some time with them.
About the TE-191-5: Tuba Exchange no longer sells this model. I'm sure there's a reason why.
About the St Pete 202N: The TE-2110 is almost a copy of the StPete 202L, just made with smaller diameter tubing at the valves. It's the same diameter from the main tuning slide to the bell. The larger valve bore gives the St Pete a little more dynamic range, but it's not much.
There is some tone color difference between lacquer finish (202L) and plated finish (202N) on the St Pete.
The TE Rose model mouthpiece was designed for use with the St Pete 202. It works quite well with either the TE-2110 or the St Pete 202.
I would not buy the St Pete in Nickel plating. It's not as good as Silver plating. It also seems to wear quickly. Everyone I know who owns the St Pete in Nickel Plate has a problem with wear spots at the contact points.

I know this won't help you decide, but maybe it will get you to drive here (I work in Chapel Hill, NOT for the Tuba Exchange) and try the horns:

My dad has the MACK 210 (same as the TE818-R4, except for the engraving). I like that horn too - Tuba Exchange or Mack version.

I've spent a few weeks with both tubas, and I feel like the 1291-5 is a better choice based upon a personal preference for pistons, the bore size is more appropriate for a 5/4 , and the bell size puts out a more rounded sound, which I feel to be more appropriate for a large (dare I say it, orchestral) BBb. I also like the flexibility of the 5v setup, and the horn is much more open in the low range because of it.

The 202's are good horns, but I think of them more of in a high school context. The bore size is a bit unwieldy for a 4/4, but it can certainly do the job if you've got the air for it.

That said, I don't understand your lust for a bigger bore size. Are you looking for a great foundation horn on a budget? Because I believe that Mr. Kane's lovely CC is still for sale, if memory serves. The 2110L is a good horn by any standard, with a workable bore size, rather than those 2 monsters you've got your eye on.

Just my 2c.

Triggerfish wrote:I play a tuba exchange 2110 but i don't own it, its a rental. i want to buy a tuba but i want to know whats best out of my 2 favorites the 1915 and the st Petersburg. and what do you prefer brass tubas or nickel/silver tubas and why.

I can't express an opinion on which is the better of those two horns since I haven't played either. While I wouldn't rule out a St. Pete, I remain a little skeptical of them. This is largely because I've sat beside a few guys who play them and have noticed what I regard as a slightly high rate of part failure or required adjustment (at least in rotary horns) -- though this may be an indication of the care the owner is providing. I've also noticed that the nickel finish seems to wear off in the usual contact places faster than I would expect. But they seem to sound very good. On the basis of cost and performance, I'd be inclined to go with a clone from Mack -- but in order to try one of those you'd either have to find someone with one or arrange to drive up to Va. (a bit west of Richmond?) and try one at Mack's. It honestly might be worth the trip. I'm currently playing beside a guy who's playing the Hirsbrunner clone from Mack, has had it for a couple of years, and loves it (a very experienced player). There were at least a half dozen Mack Brass instruments (including my euph) at Raleigh Christmas Tubas this past year. For rather obvious reasons, the TE instruments seem to be favored in high schools and colleges around here.

In terms of "brass tubas or nickel/silver tubas", there are really three choices there rather than two. Of the three I much prefer lacquer. I find it easier to care for than silver (especially for a tuba), and it's not as expensive as an initial purchase. But mostly -- even with the modern silver polishes and treatments -- I find silver to be a pain. My 1924 Buescher is silver, and I live with it. (If you were planning on becoming a professional euphonium player, you would absolutely have to get a silver instrument. It seems to be a pretty firm requirement for getting a performance degree or for even appearing at a professional audition, or merely pretending to be professional. But the tuba doesn't seem to have this requirement.)

Nickel is a different issue. Nickel doesn't require the continuing care that silver does, but it's heavier -- unless it's just a very thin plating . I have heard several people complain about the relative heaviness of nickel instruments. But it should stand up to abuse. Its appearance is also a bit different. And some people are allergic to it. I am mildly allergic to it, but do not seem to be affected by the nickel ferrules and sleeves on a lacquered instrument. However, I prefer to avoid it. If you don't know that you aren't allergic to nickel, then buying a gigantic chunk of it that you're going to embrace every day may be taking a chance.

All of these these things are really personal preference. And if you give up a strong commitment to buying from the TE, then you should look around for some good used instruments. Jason Bouchard at Northern Low Brass (http://northernlowbrass.webs.com/) seems to have a bunch cycling through his place at good prices on a pretty regular basis, and Dan Schultz (http://thevillagetinker.com/horns_for_sale.htm) often has something. There are others as well (Dillon, Baltimore Brass, others on this forum.)

ghmerrill wrote:If you don't know that you aren't allergic to nickel, then buying a gigantic chunk of it that you're going to embrace every day may be taking a chance.

Is it possible to acquire the allergy through this daily embrace, even if you didn't already have any apparent allergy before?

Not being an allergist, my knowledge of the details is more than a bit shaky. I'm pretty sure that I did not always have an allergy to nickel, but learned that I did when I went through a bunch of exhaustive allergy tests in an attempt to diagnosis some severe itching I was having on my arms (with no obvious rash). The only thing that showed up was "a mild allergy to nickel". However, I think this explained some problems I had had years earlier with skin irritation when wearing a pair of glasses with a stainless steel frame.

My allergy is sufficiently pronounced that while I seem easily able to handle nickel and nickel-bearing alloys on a daily basis, if the substance remains in contact with my skin for long periods it does cause a rash, itching, and irritation. The worst example of this was when a surgeon ignored the "mild allergy to nickel" notation on my chart and (in response to a severe knee injury) put my knee back together with what on the X-ray appeared to be three decking screws -- all of "surgical steel", which has nickel in it. He had wanted to leave those in for six months, but they came out in a matter of weeks . This is why I now have a titanium (or at least titanium-coated) artificial knee rather than a steel one, and why the frames of my glasses are titanium. (The original surgeon was not my preferred orthopod, but the one that was best/quickest for the EMS people to get me to.)

I do know that as one goes through life, allergies tend to come and (if you're lucky) go. My wife developed a rather severe allergy to yeast in her mid-forties (really difficult to diagnose since there's yeast in just about everything), and this lasted close to ten years. It severely affected what she ate and drank. Then it went away. But that's pretty much the extent of my knowledge on the subject.

Oh, and the initial "condition" that prompted the allergy testing that resulted in the discovery of the nickel allergy? Well, ... At the end of that the allergist said "I don't see an allergic reaction here. There are some more complex and expensive tests we could perform, but you're not having any other obvious symptoms. So let's just watch it for a while." That was a pretty reasonable thing to do and this guy was a very well-known and highly competent allergist. But he did miss connecting some other symptoms I'd reported at the time. I don't really fault him for it, and I don't think it would have made much difference in treatment. The other symptoms were some fairly regular "night sweats" that had developed along with the itching and the results of the blood tests that showed a substantially elevated eosinophil count. To a good oncologist, this pretty much screams one thing: Hodgkin's Disease. It was.

I'm not going to weigh in on which tuba model is better because I haven't tried either of them recently. I just want to reiterate what has already been said about NOT buying a tuba without trying it out. That means trying out the specific horn you are to buy, not just one of the same model.

About 20 years ago I bought a new (2 piece) King 2341 as my first tuba that I owned myself. I ordered it from a music store and it was delivered from the factory to my house (in two of the biggest boxes I have ever seen.) I was just getting back into playing after many years of not playing at all after college so I couldn't tell whether it was a good tuba or not. After playing it for a few years I became a little frustrated with my ability to hit certain notes accurately and some intonation "quirks." I figured that it was just my being out of shape. Then I tried a friends tuba of the same model and the difference was amazing. All the notes that I had trouble with on mine slotted perfectly and it played much more open than mine. I sold my horn and went through a couple of different horns, different brands and models, before finding the ones I have now.

When I bought my current King 2341 it was one of 6 in the shop that I tried. They all felt a little different to me and intonation tendencies were different. While some of that is mouthpiece dependent, using a mouthpiece that you are comfortable with on all of them should give you a feel for the differences. Of the 6 that I tried, there were two that I found to blow much more freely and have more precise centering. One was satin silver and one was lacquer. I ended up buying the satin silver after the person who came with me said they thought that one sounded slightly better. Of the ones I didn't buy one was bright silver, one was satin silver and two were lacquer. In other words, the finish had very little to do with which played better or sounded better. I think that the specific idiosyncrasies of a particular horn's manufacture will have more impact on the sound and playing than the finish. Silver on the other hand will take more maintenance, unless you don't care about a tarnished black horn.

I bought a Besson 983 after trying three other Eb tubas and then chose mine from a group of 4 983s. Again, the differences may have seemed minor, but they were enough to make a difference to me.

All this is a long way to say that you should never buy a tuba based on the model number. You should try out different tubas of different models and find the one that works for you. That isn't to say that model doesn't matter. Some manufacturer's products are better made than others and will be sturdier and more reliable, but model and manufacturer are not enough to help decide which instrument to buy.

I'd get the 202.