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Hi this is my first post on the forum, but I have been looking around it for a while. But to get to the point, I am a high school tuba player trying to take it to the next level from region to state. What I have realised is my vibrato isnt quite the way I want it, and im not sure if I am doing it right. If some one could please help that would be appreciated

ibebikz wrote:Hi this is my first post on the forum, but I have been looking around it for a while. But to get to the point, I am a high school tuba player trying to take it to the next level from region to state. What I have realised is my vibrato isnt quite the way I want it, and im not sure if I am doing it right. If some one could please help that would be appreciated

If you don't have a private instructor... get one before you learn a bunch of bad habits.

Vibrato is for use only by a soloist.

Welcome to TubeNet!
Dan is right: an ensemble tuba player with a vibrato of any kind is a problem, but a bad one is even more of a hazard to the ensemble's sound. Make sure you learn a correct, pleasing vibrato if you are going to do solo and do not use it for everything else.

Funny... I have seen "no vib." many times in ensemble pieces, but I have never seen "with vib." (or "con vib."?) in any music.

I remember, back in college, getting into a heated discussion with a colleague over the use of vibrato and claiming that John Fletcher had used it very effectively in his recording of the Vaughan Williams on RCA, Previn conducting. So we listened afresh. I was full of baloney - he hadn't used it at all. It was just lyrical, and expressive, and musical as hell. I took away a good lesson from that. So I try to play lyrically, expressively, and musically, and let the sound spin on its own. I just don't worry about vibrato, at least not on tuba.

Hope I've got this link from the archives right:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35684&p=314370&hili ... lo#p314370" target="_blank" target="_blank

Record yourself trying to play melodies with vibrato. Then listen to the recording. Then repeat until satisfied. If not satisfied, don't do it.

Listen to lots of other users of vibrato, both instrumental and vocal, and decide which ones you admire. Then find a way to imitate what they do. What works for you may be very different from what works for your teacher(s), but the sound is what's important, not the way you get it.

Some of these posts....WTF is even going on here.....

Reptilian wrote:Some of these posts....WTF is even going on here.....

What he said.

Thank you all for the responses, I guess will focus more on other aspects of playing than vibrato

bloke wrote:I sat next to a year-older-than-me "natural player" (who combined that "natural" ability with several hours of practice each night) who could produce a gorgeous vibrato in solo passages. Frankly, I envied it. His sound, though, would have been just as beautiful without that vibrato capability, and (perhaps...??) without it that person might have concentrated on other aspects of more practical use in the discipline known as "tuba playing" (one being: a very wide dynamic range).

I love this point.

Every time you feel like "working on vibrato," work on soft response exercises instead. It will serve you well.

FWIW, I never thought about vibrato even a little bit when I was starting out. As my embouchure strength developed, it came rather naturally.

While "move the jaw, not the horn" probably answers this, please humour a newbie and clarify that we are talking about vibrato and not tremolo?

Examples would be great but vibrato seems the wrong approach for tuba to me where (tasteful) tremolo might make sense.

goodgigs wrote:

goodgigs wrote:Kid, wiggle your jaw, don't shake the horn.

OK newbie, I didn't say move your jaw. I said "wiggle" it.
This is because there as many vibratos as there are people.
They come into categories though.
There some that quiver and some that tremolo, and everything in between.
Some include dynamic variance, most do not. Some only move flat some only sharp -
And some are all over the place ! You can also spot a singer's individual style by how far from the center they go.
I make no recommendation for two reasons: #1 "It takes all kinds" and #2 as a tubaist, I rarely use it (accept accidentally).

One of the best suggestions I ever got on soloing was that, "It's your solo do it the way you want".
And from me to you I would add: in ensemble playing, it's pretty hard to match each other's vibrato, so don't even go there.

OK so we are talking vibrato I think (from "center" I infer pitch)? That distinction (in my experience) is too often lost: vibrato is frequency modulation; tremolo is amplitude modulation.

As an example, Melora Creager uses largely vibrato on her cello and largely termelo in her vocals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eipqj_BuaAY

Vocal tremolo seems to be a "love it or hate it" proposition: Buffy St. Marie and Aaron Neville both use it and people seem to either love or hate their singing.

Understand the difficulty of syncing either modulation in a back row situation but I've heard groups of singers do that. And would seriously like examples of "good" and "bad" ornamental modulations on tuba in a solo context.

bigtubby wrote:

Vocal tremolo seems to be a "love it or hate it" proposition: Buffy St. Marie and Aaron Neville both use it and people seem to either love or hate their singing.

Vocal technique is something I know about. Any trained voice has vibrato. Crooners sometimes use a straight tone, but no serious singer does. Vocal vibrato is a fluctuation in intensity and pitch and its frequency is about 5.5 to 7 cps. Lower voices may be on the slow end of this and higher voices faster. Coloratura sopranos, the light kind, sometimes have a rather fast vibrato. Tremolo is something else. It is sometimes called a bleat for obvious reasons. It has a faster rate than vibrato, maybe 8 to 13 cps. I think it is also more of a narrow fluctuation and the intensity variation seems more pronounced. Yes, the singers mentioned above, as well as Julio Eglesias, have a very pronounced bleat. I think Josh Groban has one now, too. The bleat usually is a result of technical flaws such as too much tension. When someone with a bleat frees up the voice and sings in a more healthy way, the bleat goes away. In most voices, it doesn't sound very pleasant. It does sound kind of emotional, and I always thought Eglesias sounded kind of excited and sexy with it, but it still got old after a while, as it isn't a very pleasant sound. To me, at least.

Vibrato slower than 5 cps is a wobble and poor technique produces this. On occasion you hear it during Met Opera broadcasts because singers either get older and are out of shape and/or force and use throat tension. You sound better inside your head with throaty tone, but worse outside.

As far as vibrato with brass instruments, even with trumpet it shouldn't be habitual. One of the first things one of my trumpet teachers went after was my habitual jaw vibrato. It took a few weeks to fix, but then it got to be second nature to play without it. I can add it back when needed. There are some performers and teachers on trumpet who favor a hand vibrato. . .Doc Severinsen is one. I agree that there should be little use of vibrato on tuba. I would assume that you'd pretty much have to use jaw vibrato, since it's so difficult to shake a tuba.

As others have already said, I'd advise the OP to take the vibrato out of his everyday playing and use it sparingly in solos. To get the rate and extent right, listen to great singers and imitate, then listen to recordings of yourself or use feedback from a teacher or other good musician.

This is a great example of where to use vibrato (I think) by a fellow member.

Vibrato and When to Use It:

Jaw vibrato is the only practical vibrato to use on tuba. Moving a slide or shaking the horn is out of the question for reasons that should be obvious. Starting with a controlled vibrato helps with developing a lip trill for some players. Lip trills turn up in tuba literature pretty much never...

If you are looking a hard and fast "absolute rule" I can't offer anything in that regard. When to use vibrato is a matter of musical taste. Develop a sense of musicality by listening to a lot of music - not just other tuba players but string and wind players as well. I am of the school that finds little or no place for vibrato is certain styles of music - baroque pieces for starters: transcriptions of Bach fugues or band sometimes get murdered by euphonium players who can't play WITHOUT vibrato for instance. Yet, I will use vibrato when playing a ballad in a jazz band to warm up the phrase (when I have melody) - when it is tasteful and makes musical sense for the setting.

It can also help you warm up a little easier on some days when everything feels a little stiff.

Now, can you play your harmonic minor scales?

Mark Heter

Uncle Markie wrote:Lip trills turn up in tuba literature pretty much never...

Effie Suite???

(Agree with the rest of your post . . .)

I started as a vocalist before becoming an instrumentalist, so my concept of vibrato is breath vibrato, really not concentrating on any jaw movement. My first tuba professor was rather old-school, and encouraged me to develop limited use of vibrato in solo works. The only other place that vibrato has been of use to me on tuba is playing with really old-time "sweet" big bands, such as the Russ Morgan Orchestra or the Jan Garber Orchestra. If the tubist can match the vibrato of the saxes and brass, it is a pretty neat effect.

Also, I will say that no one on this forum has the right to be condescending or unkind to anyone else, and that we should all try not to use crude and degrading language. As musicians we automatically speak two languages, and should be above that sort of mindset. The OP who asked a very legitimate question should not be referred to as, "kid" or "newbie". This person is due just as much respect as anyone else on the forum. If I'm wrong about this, please let me know. If so, maybe I have been sponsoring the wrong forum.

ibebikz wrote:Hi this is my first post on the forum, but I have been looking around it for a while. But to get to the point, I am a high school tuba player trying to take it to the next level from region to state. What I have realised is my vibrato isnt quite the way I want it, and im not sure if I am doing it right. If some one could please help that would be appreciated

I would recommend lip/jaw vibrato.

A good exercise is to play long tones with different, controlled patterns of vibrato vibrations. Metronome on.. do quarter notes of vibrato.. Then eighth notes of vibrato quavers.. Triplets.. Sixteenths. Another good exercise is to start a long tone and very slowly and naturally increase your vibrato speed to a fast vibrato then gradually slow it down to no vibrato.

Focus more on the slower speed exercises at first to work on shaping your vibrato. You don't want a rigid, pointed vibrato, but a more rounded, natural, flowing sounding vibrato. Also, the vibrato vibrations should mostly push to the higher (sharp) side of the note than the lower (flat) to maintain proper pitch center. Listen to singers, strings, flutes, euphoniums, tubas, etc. to get an idea of what you want your vibrato to sound like.

That should get you going on the technique of the vibrato. Using it musically is a whole different post.

Good luck!