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This may have popped up on Tubenet before - but I have a question regarding how to play music in treble clef with a BB flat tuba.

Do I just play the note on the treble clef staff - say play G as a G or, I have heard, play the music as if you were playing bass clef but add 3 flats. I would play treble clef with the same fingerings as bass clef but in a different key, music in the key of F would be played in the key of A flat.

Inquiring minds want to know...

All that changing clef and adding accidentals stuff matters if you have to back out of some kind of transposition - French horn in Eb or F, for instance. You have to make an adjustment because you have a non-transposing instrument, assuming you want to play said transposed part in the intended key. If the part is at pitch, like a piano-vocal score, then you play a C as a C, an Eb as an Eb, etc. I'm assuming you're planning to use the horn in a public performance of some kind. Cuz if instead you're playing for yourself only, you could play in any durn key you want.

If it's music in C (say, voice, piano, flute, oboe, guitar, banjo) do whut Bloke said and read G as a G, C as a C etc. The low E (123 fingering) will be below the 3rd leger line below the staff. Your normal "tuning" Bb will be in the middle of the staff.

If it's Trumpet music, or clarinet, or tenor sax, or other BBb music, play it as trumpet music. If you don't know how to do that, well sir....you're in for fun!

If it's Eb music (alto or bari sax, alto clarinet, Eb horn) you can use the add 3 flats trick.

Hoping this helps more than it hinders. Good question, though...

Rob, if you are talking about playing British Brass Band music in treble clef, then it is transposed & NOT in concert pitch.
Basically everything is written like trumpet music (a whole step higher). I understand that they do this so any brass player can cover other parts if needed. The trombone parts are the only parts written in bass clef.

If you are most likely to encounter music written for trumpet, euphonium, or British brass band tuba, there is no doubt you should learn the Bb treble clef fingerings. That way, should you ever get your hands on a euphonium you will be able to read treble clef from day one.

Hup

Stryk wrote:This pretty much covers it - I do this every day teaching beginners. I take an old marching baritone and go around playing all the parts on it. As said here, if you don't know how to read trumpet music, you need to learn. Just get a beginning trumpet book and play through it. You will be fairly competent in a couple hours.

That is pretty much how I learned if I remembered correctly. However there are a couple things to be made aware of if it is brass band music(correct me if I am wrong but this was the odd jump for me because I just read it like trumpets but sometimes these slip me up). If there is a note marked C natural with the C not being in the key signature then it's a B natural since of that marking. Also, be prepared to read a whole lot of ledger lines since from what I have played in Brass Band, there are more oactive splits over regular music (love the low parts).

Musical_Eagle wrote:However there are a couple things to be made aware of if it is brass band music(correct me if I am wrong but this was the odd jump for me because I just read it like trumpets but sometimes these slip me up). If there is a note marked C natural with the C not being in the key signature then it's a B natural since of that marking..

You are wrong on this. What you are describing happens in certain transpositions. For example when playing an A part on a Bb instrument, the part being in, for example, a sharp key such as D, an accidental natural on C will be played as Cb (or B if you prefer).

The odd quirks of accidentals are common and unavoidable when transposing (where at times a natural can indicate a sharp or flat, while a sharp or flat may indicate a natural) but the point of learning the actual Bb fingerings for a Bb instrument on Bb music is that all notes are as written, whether played by Bb trumpet, euphonium or Bb tuba. A C is always a C, a C# is always a C# and a Cb is always a Cb.

Hup

Any Treble cleff parts I've seen (in drumcorp and Brass band arrangements) have been transposed to be played on a Bb instrument with the same fingering you would see used on a Bb trumpet (or Treble clef Euphonium). Meaning the music is written a whole step higher than it sounds. So a C in trouble cleff music written for a Bb horn would actually sound as a concert Bb on the horn. The easiest way I found is to get a hold of a beginners trumpet method and learn the Treble cleff fingerings that way. Of course on Tuba the notes will sound 2 octaves lower than written.

hup_d_dup wrote:

Musical_Eagle wrote:However there are a couple things to be made aware of if it is brass band music(correct me if I am wrong but this was the odd jump for me because I just read it like trumpets but sometimes these slip me up). If there is a note marked C natural with the C not being in the key signature then it's a B natural since of that marking..

You are wrong on this. What you are describing happens in certain transpositions. For example when playing an A part on a Bb instrument, the part being in, for example, a sharp key such as D, an accidental natural on C will be played as Cb (or B if you prefer).

The odd quirks of accidentals are common and unavoidable when transposing (where at times a natural can indicate a sharp or flat, while a sharp or flat may indicate a natural) but the point of learning the actual Bb fingerings for a Bb instrument on Bb music is that all notes are as written, whether played by Bb trumpet, euphonium or Bb tuba. A C is always a C, a C# is always a C# and a Cb is always a Cb.

Hup

No wonder I thought that was weird when one of the other tuba players told me that. I thought that was wrong but oh well. I stand corrected.

Eagle

This treble clef transposition stuff really messes me up because I see so little of it. I play an Eb. So for an Eb, if the music is written in concert pitch (flute, oboe, piano, etc.) then I add 3 flats and play as base clef. If it is a brass band part, I play it as if I was a trumpet. Is that correct?

opus37 wrote:This treble clef transposition stuff really messes me up because I see so little of it. I play an Eb. So for an Eb, if the music is written in concert pitch (flute, oboe, piano, etc.) then I add 3 flats and play as base clef. If it is a brass band part, I play it as if I was a trumpet. Is that correct?

Okay, this might help you. If the music is concert pitch, you play as is but a couple octaves lower. For brass band, if you are playing an Eb part, you add 3 flats and play as in bass clef. If you are playing Bb part, I'm not too sure on how to explain it even though I've done it before (was trying Eb tubas out at brass band championships just to see how they played and decided to play Carnival of Venice which my copy for it was a Bb cornet)

TubaMusikMann wrote:....The trombone parts are the only parts written in bass clef.

Nope. Only the BASS trombone part is written in bass clef. Everything else is transposed in treble clef.

Nope. Only the BASS trombone part is written in bass clef. Everything else is transposed in treble clef.

Sorry Dan, that's what I meant to say.........Bass Trombone
It was late & I was half asleep

In previous posts I have mde the case for studying from the Arban cornet method - if you do, reading from treble Bb bass parts (brass band, old American editions, etc.) is a snap.

ALSO - there are lots of useful things (additional etudes, duets, tunes for sightreading, etc.) in the cornet book that do not appear in the bass clef edition, which is "edited" for trombone.

The bottom line is you need to study from both, and learn your clefs. Learn solfeggio, learn to transpose anything put in front to any key and be able to play it on anything you own.

Be a musician that happens to play the tuba...

Mark Heter

Uncle Markie wrote:In previous posts I have mde the case for studying from the Arban cornet method - if you do, reading from treble Bb bass parts (brass band, old American editions, etc.) is a snap.

ALSO - there are lots of useful things (additional etudes, duets, tunes for sightreading, etc.) in the cornet book that do not appear in the bass clef edition, which is "edited" for trombone.

Yes, do this! It is not that difficult.

Uncle Markie wrote:In previous posts I have mde the case for studying from the Arban cornet method - if you do, reading from treble Bb bass parts (brass band, old American editions, etc.) is a snap.

ALSO - there are lots of useful things (additional etudes, duets, tunes for sightreading, etc.) in the cornet book that do not appear in the bass clef edition, which is "edited" for trombone.

The bottom line is you need to study from both, and learn your clefs. Learn solfeggio, learn to transpose anything put in front to any key and be able to play it on anything you own.

Be a musician that happens to play the tuba...

Mark Heter

+1
Basically what I suggested also!! Learn the Trumpet Cornet Fingerings!!

I thank this tubenet community for their expertise and insights. You all have given me food for thought, as well as a new realm of music to study.