6/4 CC + rotary F = no quintet tuba

[MartyNeilan]

Several times I have been in the predicament where I had a very big CC tuba, and a "traditonal" rotary F which usually had at least a little low register funkiness. That seems to be a very common setup for many up-and-coming players today, and can adequately service most orchestral repertoire. However, neither horn is ideal in many quintet environments, where many tubists may find their bread and butter outside of orchestral gigs.
Discuss, debate, and refute.
(Bloke, I know you have the world's best F tuba hands down, having played a little on it - so yours does not count)

[TheHatTuba]

.

[pierso20]

My (now sold) Cerveny tuba 653 was just fine for quintet and it was considered a 3/4 horn. Granted, the low register was very open and easy to play.

In an ideal world I WOULD have 5 tubas.
1) Small F Tuba - solo, particular literature, chamber
2) Eb Tuba - solo, chamber
3) C 4/4 CC Tuba - most band/orchestral lit
4) 6/4 CC or Bb tuba for large/heavy band and orchestral lit


Mostly for fun. In a more practical world - one in which I did playing in quite a few different situations I would own:

1) Small-ish Rotary F tuba for solo work or small situations
2) 4/4 C Tuba
3) 6/4 C Piston

I don't think there is anything wrong with having different equipment for different settings. Granted, most people can't afford that - or aren't willing to purchase used to get that.

We often hear the mantra "it's not the tuba, it's the player" which simply isn't true. Put a 6/4 horn in quintet and then replace it with a 3/4 F tuba....there will be a big difference. This is why I think folks who DON'T play in every type of situation possible and don't have lots of money should cut the difference and go for a larger 4/4 horn or 5/4 C tuba. The 6/4 horn is rarely needed for most average players.

[eupher61]

meh. You use what you got to the best of ability. I had no problem with my F's wonkiness from the start, well before "The Dent". It takes a lot of horn to face time in that range, buzzing, breathing, listening...listening....listening...

[Tom]

I'm most inclined to say that it's a contrabass tuba problem rather than a bass tuba problem. A 6/4 CC is unnecessarily large for most players and the playing situations they regularly find themselves in. A 4/4 size tuba or even something firmly established as being 5/4 by most standards is a better choice because they are more useable in the smaller ensemble situations most players find themselves in. As neat as big tubas are and as unique as their playing experience is, the vast majority of us will never find ourselves playing with the largest of professional orchestras where that type of instrument is a logical choice. You don't "need" one to play in a large band either. 6/4 tubas weren't intended to be all purpose instruments. Doesn't mean we shouldn't own them or like them...but I'm just sayin'.

On the other hand, the rotary F can be a very good quintet tuba with the right driver behind the wheel. The instruments can be difficult / limiting to play (there is a reason why many F tubas in quintets are Yamaha 822s), but sure, they can work. A rotary F wouldn't be my first choice for a quintet tuba, but most players don't buy F tubas for the sole purpose of playing them in quintets. Perhaps not enough consideration is given to selecting an F tuba that can cover all of the bases including quintet? I dunno...

[Bob Kolada]

big F + big bass trombone=any quintet playing!


Do you mean your quint valve F? I thought those things were sweet on low Bb and down.
I've been using a large piston F for concert band which arguably more low register intensive than quintet. This horn (1281) has a great feeling and sounding low C, but I hear a big sound change on B natural and lower. Yes it's not a rotary F (most new ones seem workable anyway?) but it's more low register intense music which seems to be your point anyway. I was the the guy who played low register music on 3 valve Eb's for years, so ymmv.

[thattubaguy]

Several times I have been in the predicament where I had a very big CC tuba, and a "traditonal" rotary F which usually had at least a little low register funkiness. That seems to be a very common setup for many up-and-coming players today, and can adequately service most orchestral repertoire. However, neither horn is ideal in many quintet environments, where many tubists may find their bread and butter outside of orchestral gigs.
Discuss, debate, and refute.
(Bloke, I know you have the world's best F tuba hands down, having played a little on it - so yours does not count)

What is this F tuba of Bloke?

[Steve Marcus]

Mr. G.P. makes the venerable CSO York balance beautifully with the other members of a quintet.

[Jay Bertolet]

In an ideal world I WOULD have 5 tubas.
1) Small F Tuba - solo, particular literature, chamber
2) Eb Tuba - solo, chamber
3) C 4/4 CC Tuba - most band/orchestral lit
4) 6/4 CC or Bb tuba for large/heavy band and orchestral lit

Where's the 5th horn? Just curious, the comment didn't make sense to me otherwise. Ironically, this is almost exactly the setup I use. The only two differences are that my "Small F Tuba" is a small Eb tuba (serves exactly the same purpose) and my 5th horn is a 3/4 CC tuba (a Miraphone 184) which I'm guessing is the 5th horn you forgot to include in your list. The 184 is an outstanding quintet horn, I'm surprised I don't see more of those around.

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss a 6/4 tuba for quintet work. Obviously the player matters and also needs to be comfortable doing it. That said, I use my 6/4 CC frequently for quintet jobs and the groups love it. I don't think I'd use that horn for Etler or Bozza but for standard wedding gigs and outdoor quintet jobs the 6/4 works just fine. It really shines when the group is playing a bunch of jazzy or dance band kind of literature.

[pierso20]

In an ideal world I WOULD have 5 tubas.
1) Small F Tuba - solo, particular literature, chamber
2) Eb Tuba - solo, chamber
3) C 4/4 CC Tuba - most band/orchestral lit
4) 6/4 CC or Bb tuba for large/heavy band and orchestral lit

Where's the 5th horn? Just curious, the comment didn't make sense to me otherwise. Ironically, this is almost exactly the setup I use. The only two differences are that my "Small F Tuba" is a small Eb tuba (serves exactly the same purpose) and my 5th horn is a 3/4 CC tuba (a Miraphone 184) which I'm guessing is the 5th horn you forgot to include in your list. The 184 is an outstanding quintet horn, I'm surprised I don't see more of those around.

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss a 6/4 tuba for quintet work. Obviously the player matters and also needs to be comfortable doing it. That said, I use my 6/4 CC frequently for quintet jobs and the groups love it. I don't think I'd use that horn for Etler or Bozza but for standard wedding gigs and outdoor quintet jobs the 6/4 works just fine. It really shines when the group is playing a bunch of jazzy or dance band kind of literature.

Thanks for calling me out! I meant 4.

[MartyNeilan]

Do you mean your quint valve F? I thought those things were sweet on low Bb and down
.....

No doubt, it was. But low D, Db, and C, and B required a bit of "finesse." Nothing that couldn't be managed, but still not the number one choice for laying down a fat walking bass line, oom-pah, or whatever may come up in some random chart.

Just thinking about this the other night since this is the two horn setup many aspire for, and figured I would "tweak" TubeNet a little and see what kind of responses I got. Some of the posters are right about the newer rotary F's improvements, as well as the Yamaha piston F's having almost become a defacto quintet standard in some regions. An awful lot of it depends on the lit - Bank A Sang Your Leader works on a lot more horns than something written for the ABQ.

Keep 'em coming!