Geib mouthpieces

[happyroman]

Several websites which sell Geib model mouthpieces advertise them as working particularly well with rotary tubas. However, I have not been able to find any explanations why these model mouthpieces would work better on a rotary tuba than say, a Helleburg.

I play a Rudy 5/4 CC and have typically used Helleburg models, and am currently alternating between the Floyd Cooley model and the Laskey 30H.

If, indeed, a Geib model might be a better match, I would be interested in hearing your opinions as to why. I am currently considering the Laskey 28G and 30G, as well as the Stofer-Geib.

All responses are welcome.

Thanks.

[Ben]

I have noticed this advertising strategy also, but I can not personally explain why it would be better. Different yes, Geib's are designed to be brighter than Helleburgs... In the context of these advertisement, I do not understand what "better" means.

[Ben]

I guess I should add that I use both Geib inspired in addition to Helleburg inspired MP's on my tubas (all rotor horns).

[Lee Stofer]

I'm not convinced that Geib mouthpieces are designed to be brighter-sounding than Hellebergs. My personal experience is that when I use a Helleberg-style mouthpiece, I generally get more edge coming out of the bell, and more tongue-and-valve noise. I get a darker-but-full-of-color tone quality, and less extraneous noise when I play a Geib-style mouthpiece, which is why I use one 99.8 % of the time. The main exception that I can think of is when I play an older Mirafone 185 or 186 CC, as I do like to use a Helleberg with them.

[Lee Stofer]

That's why there are that many different mouthpieces out there - no one mouthpiece will "do it" for everyone.

I wonder if Jim New might have changed some aspect, as I sent him an original Conn Geib to copy back almost 10 years ago. Jim new made the first 10 of my mouthpieces and they played very well, but since Jim Kelly had the resources at hand to make a cosmetically better-finished mouthpiece, Jim Kelly and I made an agreement and he has been making them ever since.

[chronolith]

I have one of the Geibs from the Kanstul CNC. Absolutely agree on the quality of soft playing. It's also a monster in the low register. It's not my main piece anymore (thanks to Bloke's grand orchestra), but I did get it out recently specifically for Prokofiev's R&J. Rawr!

Not played any of the other Geibs out there (apart from the Laskey 28B) so no value for comparison here.

[happyroman]

One thing that makes the Gieb cup a bit difference and possibly more friendly(?) to rotary tubas is that the cup has more of a bowl shape at the bottom. The shape seems to create a bit more turbulence giving a bit more "snap" in the sound, a bit more definition, and a slightly quicker response. I don't perceive the sound as brighter and I use them on both rotary and piston tubas, fwiw. That being said...

Would it be accurate to say that piston valve instruments tend to respond more quickly than rotary valve instruments? If so, then using a MP with more of a bowl shaped cup (in order to quicken the response) would seem to be a benefit.

I suppose the differences in sound quality are also a significant reason why the Geib would work well with a rotary tuba. If Hellebergs tend to emphasize the fundamental and Geibs tend to emphasize the overtones, the mouthpieces may add elements to the sound qualities to each type of horn not normally associated with piston/rotary tubas.

[JCalkin]

I too have a Rudy 5/4 CC and have tried many of the popular Geib variations. I currently own:

-Stofer Geib Euro
-Sellmansberger Symphony Euro
-Dillon G3
-Dillon G3L (large shank)
-Dillon G5BL (large shank, bronze core)

I have also tried many other types of pieces with the Rudy, but I find that the Geib styles work best. I feel as though the bowl-ish shape and resultant "turbulence" imparts just a bit of resistance, which is very helpful in taming the air-hog qualities of the Rudy. The low range becomes manageable as long as I remember not to force it. The funnel-style allows for a more "pedal to the metal" air approach than do the Geibs, but I'd have to grow another lung to make that feasible for everyday applications. I get plenty of power with the Geibs in the low range if I remember to back off the throttle.

I use the Stofer as my go-to on the Rudy. It was a tough call between the Sellmansberger and the Stofer but at the end of the day there was a quality of "security" to the Stofer that I lacked on the Blokepiece. Both are great mouthpieces (as are the Dillons, actually) but for me the Stofer Geib is the best fit.

[Bandmaster]

That's why there are that many different mouthpieces out there - no one mouthpiece will "do it" for everyone.

I wonder if Jim New might have changed some aspect, as I sent him an original Conn Geib to copy back almost 10 years ago. Jim new made the first 10 of my mouthpieces and they played very well, but since Jim Kelly had the resources at hand to make a cosmetically better-finished mouthpiece, Jim Kelly and I made an agreement and he has been making them ever since.

Will you have them available in stainless steel? I had one of your Geib mouthpieces and really liked it, but I have fallen in love with the smooth feel of the stainless steel. Ufortunately I lost the mouthpiece I had, but would love to get one again if it were in stainless. ( hint... )

[bisontuba]

Hi-
A big two thumbs up on the Kanstul Geib mouthpiece-tremendous!! Wonderful rich focused sound...I like
Mark

[Lee Stofer]

@Bandmaster - I will talk with Jim Kelly about the stainless steel option.

Again, everyone is unique and not everything will work for everyone, but there are some designs that work well for a large number of people, just because of a balance of parameters. I feel that when you find "the" mouthpiece that works as the best link between you and your tuba, that is all that really matters and you can then forget about it, and just play and enjoy the music.

I have spent a little time around some of the very best players, and in earlier days I was surprised that they generally played smaller mouthpieces than I did. The part that intrigued me was that they had such a good command of the low range with not-large mouthpieces. Through going to the Geib mouthpiece and learning to play it, I also learned how the successfully navigate the low range with a not-so-large mouthpiece. The key is relaxation and focus.

[Donn]

I have read (here) that the merits of funnel vs. bowl are related to the length of the leadpipe, which is related to the valve mechanism (piston vs. rotor) only by coincidence.

I have also read (here) that it's about whether you play up stream or down stream.

Just digging those myths up in case they're ripe for resurrection, have no personal insight into why or whether they'd be true. For me ... not sure the tonal difference is aptly described by "dark" vs. "bright". When we use words like that under circumstances where we all know what's meant, it fosters the illusion that they are useful for communicating. Unfortunately I don't have a better alternative to offer, but I've read (here) fans of the bowl shape talking about "clarity", which I think suggests mid partials. Also would be interesting to experiment with different cup shapes where "bowl" means "flat bottom", and where "bowl" means "straight sides". (Rather, more flat/straight than the median compromise.) It seems to me that I get what I hear as the "bowl" effect more from the straight sides than the flat bottom (but don't really know, as I'd normally steer clear of either.)

[bort]

How can I order a Kanstul Geib?

[bisontuba]

How can I order a Kanstul Geib?

Hi-
Call up Kanstul (#888-KANSTUL) or email them (sales@kanstul.com" target="_blank) to get in touch with their CAD mouthpiece man Jim New. Hours are: 7:30AM-3:30PM Pacific time. They are $150 each in silver plus add'l shipping via priority mail of $5.15. Jim is a good guy. Good luck.
Mark

[Untersatz]

How can I order a Kanstul Geib?

A valid question............as the only tuba mouthpieces listed on the Kanstul site are these:
http://www.kanstul.com/mouthpiece.php?P ... ne%20Piece" target="_blank
And I seriously doubt that an 18 or 24AW mouthpiece is what was being mentioned

[bisontuba]

How can I order a Kanstul Geib?

A valid question............as the only tuba mouthpieces listed on the Kanstul site are these:
http://www.kanstul.com/mouthpiece.php?P ... ne%20Piece" target="_blank" target="_blank
And I seriously doubt that an 18 or 24AW mouthpiece is what was being mentioned

Hi-
That's why I suggest to contact Jim New so no confusion exists...it is the ( as stamped on the Bowl) KANSTUL GEIB-in either Ametican or Euro shank..
Regards-
Mark

[Untersatz]

I don't get it..............if Kanstul IS making these exceptional mouthpieces, and they ARE as good
as some of the members here are reporting, then why all the secretive nonsense? Why aren't they
being advertised for sale? As Greg stated in his post, he visited the Kanstul factory & inquired about
the mouthpiece in question & only got shrugged shoulders & blank stares in response. Is Jim New
making these mouthpieces in his basement at home & selling them "out the back door"

[Mikelynch]

Nothing secretive about this at all, these mouthpieces just aren't part of their regularly-catalogued items. Call them up, tell them you are interested in the Kanstul Geib tuba mouthpiece that Jim is making, and they'll take your order.

[sailn2ba]

OK! Back 1/2 step! Why would a rotary valve horn respond more slowly than a piston? Is it the 180 deg. turn? Has it been measured?

[TheHatTuba]

OK! Back 1/2 step! Why would a rotary valve horn respond more slowly than a piston? Is it the 180 deg. turn? Has it been measured?

Valve type is just one of several factors. Metal thickness, receiver gap, leadpipe length, mts gap, etc.