The Voice of God! (or something like it)

[David Richoux]

I was at Stern Grove (San Francisco) this afternoon for a concert by Fanfare Ciocarlia from Romania - they started their show with just the BBb and F helicons plus the two baritones on stage doing a slow fanfare.
I don't know if they had any special doubling effects on the mics, or if it was just the amplification of the natural chordal effect - but the result was powerful very low frequencies along with higher overtones. I didn't record it on my phone (doubt that it would have picked up the true sound anyway) but it was something like listening to the biggest pipe organ in the world!

Fanfare Ciocarlia have quite a few recordings and some Youtubes worth a listen, but if you have a chance to see them live - be there!

(BTW, if you were wondering about the choice of words in my subject line, it is a historical term for special large pipes in some major church organs.)

[Donn]

Will be there Wednesday.

I thought from the subject that this was going to be about Surinam - I think? - where someone gets a private, full head surround sousaphone concert in the course of some ecstatic religious thing.

[David Richoux]

I have read about that!

[royjohn]

It could be possible that some of the intervals led to low difference tones. Organ builders use "monkey quints" to produce low tones. They are called that because the smaller pipes are often fastened to the larger ones like carrying a monkey. An 8 foot pipe (8 foot tone) is paired with the fifth above it (5 1/3 foot), and this produces a synthetic tone an octave below the 8 foot pipe (16 foot tone). The same is done an octave lower to produce a 32 foot tone without the expense of those very large pipes. If there is room for the standing wave to develop, these stops can be very convincing. IDK how this would work in an outdoor setting, but perhaps. . .

[David Richoux]

Stern Grove has a very good amplification system - but even without speakers the sound quality is great. They present everything from folk acts to symphonic orchestras. http://sterngrove.org

[David Richoux]

I brought up the question to a friend who was in the US Army band in Europe for 20 years - he said it was probably the result of carefully chosen notes from each instrument and all of the horns playing in tune. A musical trick, in a way.

[kontrabass]

My band Lemon Bucket Orkestra opened twice for Ciocarlia in Toronto. I've heard them soundcheck and I also jammed with them acoustically.

Having heard the soundcheck twice, I am pretty certain there is an octave doubling effect on the low helicons. Either that or some very aggressive EQ boosting of low frequency - but I think it's an effect, I didn't see their effect chain myself but all of us in the band heard it and commented on it. It would work well because their bass lines are all short, crisp, extremely simple, no room for mud. The way they play is naturally full of higher overtones - edgy, brassy. And then the amplification and doubling effect adds the warm low rumble to fill out the frequency spectrum. I heard them play acoustically and of course they just sound like a brass band, no rumble, and no 'carefully chosen notes in tune' to create a low overtone, sorry but that's not going to result on an extra low octave on every note through a full sound system.

Make no mistake, these guys have been touring the world for over a decade and surely spent the time refining their setup, just as they spent the time to engineer their recorded work to a very high production standard. Like any professional touring band they bring their own soundman, microphones and effects to make it work in any venue.

[Donn]

Actually we used the same microphones. Our sousaphone player wanted a mike inserted into the bell and didn't want to stand on the risers, so the tuba mikes went to a trombone and a baritone. I would guess these were from the house. The band did bring some clip-ons. By the way, the mike-in-the-bell sound was not so great, to my ear; next gig, I'm subbing on sousaphone, and I hope to play into a regular floor mike.

I seem to have missed the difference tones. Didn't hear the whole sound check, though. There were a couple `brass choir' moments, sustained notes from the conical horns. What I notice in these rare moments is the odd intonation - I think the first time you hear it, it might sound like some of them are way off, but they'll do it the exact same every time. Maybe the whole reason for that is that it makes the difference tones work out better! Although I'm sure the ethnomusicologists would have some story about Turkish music from the Ottoman army band or something.

The F tuba came up and did a couple of very sharp solo breaks. 3 valves.