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I'm happy with my 4/4 Bbb for now and don't do enough playing to justify spending much for another horn, but you never know what might happen. I'm curious to know which 5/4 to 6/4 tuba you all would consider the most air-efficient and whether its playing characteristics (intonation, tone in high and low registers) would qualify it as a good tuba, too. If it didn't cost more than a good used car, that would be good, too. Maybe asking for too much. . .

What's air efficient?

I've found the PT6 (and my current PT-5) to respond as if they were smaller but sound pretty huge, if that's what you mean.

As far as "used car" prices - well, that also doesn't mean much to me. That can range from $500 to $50k or so without even getting into collectible stuff. But there are cheaper big tubas out there. Look in the For Sale forum.

Newsflash! Just in case you didn't already know this, one can no longer purchase "used" cars. I am left to assume you were referring to "pre-owned" cars. I doubt this has any real effect on the value of those cars, but it is important to adapt to our modern era. There are numerous examples of this, all around us. I'm quite certain you can name many examples of this.

I used to have a Miraphone 1291, which is sort of a 5/4 tuba (whatever). I found it to be very efficient, a lot of "go" with not a lot of "blow." The tone was a bit too dark for my liking, and not as interesting as some tubas that take a little more work. Efficiency is good, but there are always tradeoffs.

Due to differences in individual examples of a given model of instrument, and the vast array of differences in people, this is pretty subjective stuff. What seems most efficient for one person may not work for the next person.

Kanstul makes what I think is a very efficient hefty 5/4 CC tuba called the 5490, which really puts out the quality sound without killing the player. The Meinl-Weston Thor is a large and quite efficient instrument, and the Rudolf Meinl Bayreuth model 5/4 (read, 6/4) BBb tuba plays as precise and clean as any large CC tuba on the planet. It is possible to find a really good example of the Holton 345 in BBb or CC that is efficient. One of the most beautiful-sounding and efficient instruments on the planet is the old Martin Mammoth BBb recording bass. I've done a fair amount of gigging on the Martin Mammoth over the past 7 years, and have found that a true 6/4 behemoth with a .689" bore translates as, "a truly gorgeous, room-filling sound without very much work". These are my picks.

I used to play on a PT-6p which is a fantastic horn. Good response with easy tuning. The Kanstul 5/4 is very similar with just a little more resonance. I recently switched to a big 4/4 Nirschl and I feel that I put in the same effort and get better results. Sounds just as big as the PT-6 too.

I'm sure there are as many opinions here as there are members, but from a strictly research perspective you will find...

195 fafner. 12 pages
Fafner. 71 pages
Neptune. 166 pages
Miraphone 1291. 171 pages
Miraphone 191. 69 pages (coincidence I think not...)
Alex 163. 43 pages
Many other flavors I'm sure you'll find your Moby....Ymmv


Sadly I have read them all and the conclusion is play them All and find what speaks to you....

JJ

Miraphone 1293 or a Thor. Best low ranges and easiest to play.

Just my opinion.
Roger

johnhadden wrote:I used to play on a PT-6p which is a fantastic horn. Good response with easy tuning. The Kanstul 5/4 is very similar with just a little more resonance. I recently switched to a big 4/4 Nirschl and I feel that I put in the same effort and get better results. Sounds just as big as the PT-6 too.

I feel the same way about my Nirschl 4/4. Absolutely. If you put it outside in a strong wind, the thing'll play itself!

Toobist wrote:

johnhadden wrote:I used to play on a PT-6p which is a fantastic horn. Good response with easy tuning. The Kanstul 5/4 is very similar with just a little more resonance. I recently switched to a big 4/4 Nirschl and I feel that I put in the same effort and get better results. Sounds just as big as the PT-6 too.

I feel the same way about my Nirschl 4/4. Absolutely. If you put it outside in a strong wind, the thing'll play itself!

I'm glad we've both seen the light!

I have found the PT-6, Miraphone 1291, and Meinl Weston 5450 'Thor' to work the best for 5/4 size tubas. As for 6/4 tubas, price may be an issue. But I really like the Meinl Weston 6450 'Baer', Gronitz PCK, York 6/4, and any Hirsbrunner 6/4. There is one in particular that there is only currently 11 or so in existence. It's a custom Yamaha 6/4 tuba that is used by renowned players around the world. By far the best performing tuba I've ever seen (besides Gene's one-of-a-kind York). If price isn't an issue for you, I suggest ordering one of those for $37,000 lol but that is pretty unaffordable. Also I'd only recommend a 6/4 tuba if you are reasonably large in size. My instructor had a 6/4 York but had to sell it because he was too small, which led to arthritis. All these are good options for tubas but choose wisely! Not everyone plays each instrument the same. You have to see which one you play the best!

MrXtuba wrote:I have found the PT-6, Miraphone 1291, and Meinl Weston 5450 'Thor' to work the best for 5/4 size tubas. As for 6/4 tubas, price may be an issue. But I really like the Meinl Weston 6450 'Baer', Gronitz PCK, York 6/4, and any Hirsbrunner 6/4. There is one in particular that there is only currently 11 or so in existence. It's a custom Yamaha 6/4 tuba that is used by renowned players around the world. By far the best performing tuba I've ever seen (besides Gene's one-of-a-kind York). If price isn't an issue for you, I suggest ordering one of those for $37,000 lol but that is pretty unaffordable. Also I'd only recommend a 6/4 tuba if you are reasonably large in size. My instructor had a 6/4 York but had to sell it because he was too small, which led to arthritis. All these are good options for tubas but choose wisely! Not everyone plays each instrument the same. You have to see which one you play the best!

Aren't Sam Pilafian, Alessandro Fossi, and the late Ron Bishop all around 5'4" though? And they all played 6/4 instruments if I recall correctly.

To echo Lee Stofer in regards to the big Rudy's,
I have a pre "Bayreuth" BBb 5/4 Rudolf Meinl,
and it's by far the most air efficient horn I have ever played...

I'm not sure what "efficient" means, but I will say that Marty Neilan's big's tuba is very responsive. Not exactly a model you can go out and buy two of, but who knows... Marty might sell one of his.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47678&p=411791

It would be interesting to see a 1293 (or 186/188 for that matter) made with the same process as the 381 "Solo". The difference in sound quality/response/flexibilty/etc between the 181 and 381 Bel Cantos is incredible, so maybe it could improve the 1293 in a similar way.

TheHatTuba wrote:It would be interesting to see a 1293 (or 186/188 for that matter) made with the same process as the 381 "Solo". The difference in sound quality/response/flexibilty/etc between the 181 and 381 Bel Cantos is incredible, so maybe it could improve the 1293 in a similar way.

I think they're both the product of leadpipe and 'speaker' tinkering; I may be wrong, though.

k001k47 wrote:

TheHatTuba wrote:It would be interesting to see a 1293 (or 186/188 for that matter) made with the same process as the 381 "Solo". The difference in sound quality/response/flexibilty/etc between the 181 and 381 Bel Cantos is incredible, so maybe it could improve the 1293 in a similar way.

I think they're both the product of leadpipe and 'speaker' tinkering; I may be wrong, though.

The 381 also uses thinner sheet brass for the bell and bottom bow, making it noticeably lighter (physically).

The 1293 is very good, but it would be interesting to see if resonance/response/sound/etc could be improved with thinner brass. Definitely worked for the 381.

TheHatTuba wrote:

k001k47 wrote:

TheHatTuba wrote:It would be interesting to see a 1293 (or 186/188 for that matter) made with the same process as the 381 "Solo". The difference in sound quality/response/flexibilty/etc between the 181 and 381 Bel Cantos is incredible, so maybe it could improve the 1293 in a similar way.

I think they're both the product of leadpipe and 'speaker' tinkering; I may be wrong, though.

The 381 also uses thinner sheet brass for the bell and bottom bow, making it noticeably lighter (physically).

The 1293 is very good, but it would be interesting to see if resonance/response/sound/etc could be improved with thinner brass. Definitely worked for the 381.

Cool! The old 186s feel a lot lighter compared to the new ones.

I like Kanstul's Grand CC