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Just curious for those that have owned this model how long did you own it, and what where your reasons for getting something else? I'm aware that these are very good horns if you find a good one (its hit or miss I know). I'd like to stay apples to apples so if you just wanted a different key or switched to rotors that's fine, but BBb wise what prompted the switch?

JJ

It seems that you are asking former 2341 owners why they switched to something else?
So I will tell you why I got mine (in case you want to know that too).
I have always heard all of the good things about the King 2341 so I finally bought one myself & I have
to admit that all the things I heard were true like:
How well they play, a very nimble, easy to play full size 4/4 horn with a good full size tuba sound,
which is surprising considering that they have one of the smallest bore sizes of any 4/4 horn.
The intonation is excellent, ergonomics are very good. It's just a well made, well liked, great
playing tuba that is fairly lightweight & easy to hold. And pretty affordable too.

Some of the new 2341 tubas are really stinky. Stinky to the point that they are basically unplayable and have been sent back to the factory.

However... the older ones with the detachable bells remain one of my personal favorites. I will always keep a recording bell one around for Dixieland gigs.

TubaTinker wrote:Some of the new 2341 tubas are really stinky. Stinky to the point that they are basically unplayable and have been sent back to the factory.

Dan, can elaborate on this a little?
What are some of the main flaws that make them unplayable?
I'm guessing valves?

TubaMusikMann wrote:It seems that you are asking former 2341 owners why they switched to something else?
So I will tell you why I got mine (in case you want to know that too).
I have always heard all of the good things about the King 2341 so I finally bought one myself & I have
to admit that all the things I heard were true like:
How well they play, a very nimble, easy to play full size 4/4 horn with a good full size tuba sound,
which is surprising considering that they have one of the smallest bore sizes of any 4/4 horn.
The intonation is excellent, ergonomics are very good. It's just a well made, well liked, great
playing tuba that is fairly lightweight & easy to hold. And pretty affordable too.

I apologize I wasn't even thinking about those that switched to a king, I was putting out feelers to avoid buyers remorse and having to look else where a short time down the road. Because I can afford a 2341 and it has favorable reviews and I'm sure it will suit my abilities for many years. But I'm not opposed to holding out and saving if something else might be better bang for the buck...

JJ

Among other horns, I own a detachable-bell 2341, with both the recording bell and the 19" upright bell, and have been very pleased with it. Easy to play, solid low end, don't need a wheel-barrow to carry it, no intonation issues, etc., etc. As far as I'm concerned, it falls into the "If you could own only one horn" category.

The only draw-back is that (at least for me) the 4th valve branch will absolutely accumulate large quantities of moisture to the extent that one can use it to water the flowers. One rotation and a pulled slide, and you're good to go again.

I'm an amateur, so take it for what it's worth...........

I think you need to make clear whether you are talking about the new 2341, or the old detachable bell version. I have the old 1241 with both bells (actually three bells-- a 19" upright, a 22" upright, and a recording bell). I like it a lot, but I don't play B flat that often. I have it mainly for the recording bell, for outdoor concerts, when I don't want to work so hard, with a CC tuba, with an upright bell!

Outawind wrote: "If you could own only one horn" category.

Interesting you say that, because for those fortunate enough to own or need multiple horns I'm jealous however there are still those of us that enjoy playing and just want a decent horn that we won't "out grow" for lack of a better term. Because one is probably all ill ever have at any given time.

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:I think you need to make clear whether you are talking about the new 1243, or the old detachable bell version. I have the old 1241 with both bells (actually three bells-- a 19" upright, a 22" upright, and a recording bell). I like it a lot, but I don't play B flat that often. I have it mainly for the recording bell, for outdoor concerts, when I don't want to work so hard, with a CC tuba, with an upright bell!

The new 2341...

JJ

I bought one of the early one-piece-bell Kings in 2002 in satin sliver. This horn was one from the earliest production runs. It lasted three years with me.

The satin finish was good to look at, but unlike vintage satin finishes, this one was extremely rough and held tarnish after cleaning. There were a couple of spots that were so rough that they'd break the skin if you hit them wrong. There were sloppy solder splatters all over the valve section, and it looks like they just plated over them instead of cleaning them up.

The valves were the roughest I ever felt before they broke in. One of them wouldn't even rotate in its casing at first. After about 5-6 months they were decently smooth and quick. Even so, you'd still feel them catch if you rotated them.

The receiver was a bit too big for an old Bach 18 with an American shank; it never seated. I bought a couple of Rudy Meinl mouthpieces that had slightly larger shanks, but they went almost all the way in. Full Euro shanks stuck out too far.

The open tones were very well in tune, but the first and second valve slides were too long. With the slides all the way in, the second valve was more than 1/4-tone flat and the first valve was half that. It was a constant battle to play in tune. I should have had the slide tubing cut shorter, but I was too irritated about the other problems with the horn to put the cash into it; I knew I'd probably get rid of it.

It collected water in three places in the horn that did not have spit valves, so I had to give it the King twist every so often.

It had an excellent tone, could put out a lot of volume, and it had a very easy pedal register. It wasn't all bad, but there were too many problems with it for me to keep it, particularly the intonation hassles. I know they've made considerable improvements in them since then.

I used an older detachable bell model for several years and was very happy with it. Great, easy response with accurate intonation throughout the registers. Even though I play mostly with a small theater orchestra, I love putting a lot of air through the horn and a rich dark sound. The King always had great response in the extreme low register, but I could max out the sound pretty easily. I waited until I found something that really felt like "me" before replacing it, because it'd be hard to find a better horn as far as value is concerned. I eventually fell in love with a B&S GR55 -- much different, but what I felt represented the sound I wanted. I'd still recommend the older model Kings to anyone wanting a solid BBb at an incredible value.

TubaMusikMann wrote:

TubaTinker wrote:Some of the new 2341 tubas are really stinky. Stinky to the point that they are basically unplayable and have been sent back to the factory.

Dan, can elaborate on this a little?
What are some of the main flaws that make them unplayable?
I'm guessing valves?

Yes. I know of one instance where the pistons of new 2341 tubas fit so loosely that the horns weren't playable and were sent back. I'm sure the person I heard that from is on this forum. Maybe he'll chime in. I've heard of a couple more instances but don't recall the particulars.

By-and-large... the new 2341 tubas seem to be pretty good but there have been some isolated problems with piston clearances.

When I got back into playing in 1993, after having not played in about 18 years, I bought a 2341. It was the two piece, upright bell version that was shipped directly from the factory, although I bought it from Washington Music. I got back into playing on it, but even though it was like I was just starting out, that horn always felt a little stuffy to me. I sold it and bought a rose brass rotary valve horn that was labeled "Styriation," although I was never sure exactly who made it. While I loved the way that it sounded, that horn never felt right to me either. I tried lots of different horns, but none of them really seemed to be worth switching for. Then I tried out a half dozen of the "new" one piece King 2341's, three lacquered brass one bright silver, and two in satin silver.

These were the second version, with the slightly longer tubing than the first, but before there was a detachable valve section. Of the six I tried there were two that played well for me, one brass and one satin. The others either felt stuffy or intonation seemed a little off. I chose the one that played and sounded best for me, which happened to be in satin silver. I find intonation to be pretty much spot on throughout most of the range, with the only pulling or alternate fingerings needed to be in the pedal range. I still have that horn and consider it my "main" horn. I have owned a number of different tubas that I have used for special purposes, but none of them made me want to get rid of the King. The only horn that I have tried that I could have afforded that made me consider it was a Miraphone 1291 (BBb), but the difference wasn't enough for me to justify the extra cost.

As someone else mentioned, the receiver is large on it. I use a Doug Elliot mouthpiece with an "E" shank that seats perfectly for me. Before I had that I used a Dillon Helleberg copy that worked fine.

Lew wrote:I have owned a number of different tubas that I have used for special purposes, but none of them made me want to get rid of the King. The only horn that I have tried that I could have afforded that made me consider it was a Miraphone 1291 (BBb)

Well Lew, we must think alike, because those are my two main horns that I use on a regular basis & I love em both!
I have also just got back into playing after 25 years, so I'm a beginner...........again
FWIW I have tried many different mouthpieces on my 2341 & have finally settled on a keeper!
I'm using a G&W Diablo (heavy design) Euro & at least for me, gives the best overall sound & response
of any mouthpiece that I've tried on my 2341

I have played many of these and like instruments over the years and
I find them to be very versatile and efficient instruments.

If you want to take these horns to a new level of resonance and projection, try one with the new MAW valves. These valves make this model play more like a 5/4 and can even compares well to some of the top 6/4s on the market. I was blown away when I did a play test on my friend Dave's 2341. I also have a set for my Martin Renowned which is very close to the 2341 in design.

As a side note, I auditioned for and gained entrance to the Manhattan School of Music on an older King 2340. Thats right, a 3 valver! Even played my whole freshman year on it until it was stolen. That was in 1988.

I can't seem to find any prices on MAW valves. What would a set of these for an old 2 piece 1241 cost? Or how can I find out. Can't find any info at the MAW site or here in other threads. Thanks!

Martin A. Wilk

T: 812.364.6421
Email: contact@mawvalve.com" target="_blank
Palmyra, IN USA

Got that info under the Sponsors section of this site.

As for the King being stolen, I was fortunate to have it covered under my parents Homeowner insurance and subsequently was able to by a York model 33 with 4 valves.
in some ways, the old king played better. To me, those York 33's play better with a King valve set.

I bought a Miraphone 1291, but although the sound was lovely and fit & finish were great (wonderful valves, too), the horn never fit me:
- felt like I was blowing into a vacuum cleaner hose - just sucked the air out of me, and volume and sustain were laborious (got light-headed).
- physical dimensions felt odd. Always felt a little "off" trying to hold it.
- brass was really thin; easy to wrinkle or indent.
- I'm cheap; felt like I had too much cash sitting in the horn.

I bought a like-new King 2341 off a Tubenetter at a very aggressive price, but it played a little goofy. Poor response, and the airflow felt wrong. I cleaned it with no improvement, but the air still felt funny, so I cleaned it very aggressively, and a silicon seal dislodged, presumably hanging out into the airpath from the coupling between the leadpipe and removable valve body. Was a different, wonderful horn after that. I felt a little sorry for the fellow who had sold it to me, who not only took a fair hit on his purchase price on the resale to me, but also likely formed a really bad impression about the 2341.

I recorded myself on the two horns, and they both played great, but although the 1291 sounded a little more "flavorful" to me, I much preferred the King for overall value, comfort, and sturdiness, so I sold the 1291, and have never regretted the decision.

I've owned a few horns (all BBb): Miraphone 186, a few Werils, Amati, Yamaha, maybe a couple others, and the 2341 is my keeper. It gives me a big, round, smooth sound with the ability to edge it when desired, plenty of nimbleness, easy dynamic range, comfortable scale, and perhaps my greatest pleasure: push-button intonation. Also, it's a relatively inexpensive horn with a good resale value, so I feel it's a low-exposure expenditure with relatively good liquidity, should I need to sell it quickly. I don't see myself buying another concert tuba unless it's eventually to swap out for a smaller "old guy/bad back" horn, but if you start with a used, fairly-priced 2341 and wish to move to another horn, you'd probably get your initial money back, so it seems about as safe a purchase as any, and better than most.

The newer 2341s are wildly inconsistent, especially when they first came out. Leadpipes of incorrect (insufficient) length, rotten-sized receivers, rotten valves... bizarre valve lengths...

But the potential is there... but you shouldn't have to have a major "tweakfest" to make a brand new horn work.

But if you get one with a proper leadpipe and receiver, valves lapped and properly fit, no loops too long, and undamaged, you'd be hard pressed to find a "better" BBb... just different.

I've had two older 2340/41 axes... they were both great and only sold for cash needed... and regretted losing both of them. I plan on securing another, but my King sousa is fitting my Jazz needs nicely for now...

J.c.S.

Jerryleejr wrote: ...But I'm not opposed to holding out and saving if something else might be better bang for the buck...

As far as bang for the buck, the old 4 rotor B&S BBb's (16.5" bell w/ garland, horizontal mts, aka: sonora, weltklang, etc) play very well and can be found for a good price.