TubeNet

Tuono, PT-6, or Bruckner. Why?

Discuss ...

PT-6. Because it's won the most jobs in world renowned orchestras.

Are the parameters that we are blindly choosing one of these horns as if we were going to purchase one without being able to test it before hand? In that case it would be the PT-6, but if we are choosing the one with the coolest name Bruckner.

No 163 option?

186.
Have a nice day.

bloke wrote:Do I have to...??

I was informed through notarized pm that blokes are exempt.

bloke wrote:Do I have to...??

I really like the whole 191/1291 family, so out of that list I pick the 291.

Bob Kolada wrote:I really like the whole 191/1291 family, so out of that list I pick the 291.

2341 has both a 2 and a 1 in it, and the first three numbers add up to 9 to much of a reach???

JJ

The Miraphone Bruckner is probably the best 'new-style' tuba I've played. It's not the biggest, I'd say it's a 4.5/4 ... akin in size to a 188, just a tad larger feeling than an HB2 or Rudy 4/4, smaller than a 1291 ...probably the smallest feeling of the 3 originally mentioned, but fantastic all the way around. I think It's an astoundingly good horn.

I think what Tony is asking about are 5-rotary valve, 5/4 size (bigger than "standard") CC tubas.

As I have never blown into an instrument myself, and since my son has way too little experience to be able to evaluate these instruments fairly, the only thing I can offer is comparison of specifications. Most of these tubas have a graduated bore through the valve section. The "street prices" are estimates, for new instruments in brass (not silver), ignoring discounts / sales tax / shipping / used instruments / cases included. Real-world availability is too complex to describe here.

Alexander 163: Bore is 20.5 mm (.808") (through all 5 valves?). Bell diameter: 450mm, available in yellow or gold brass. Height: 103cm. Street price (with 5 valves, the 4-valve and BBb tubas have the same model number but are cheaper): $12,300.

B&S PT-6 or 3098-L: Bore is 19-21 mm (.748-.827"). Bell diameter 480 mm. Height: Pretty tall (looks like the standard "tall chimney" 186 pattern), probably 105 cm. Street price: $11,500.

Cerveny 601 and 603 "Piggy": Bore is 21.2 mm (0.835", graduated?). Bell diameter is 500 mm for the 601, and 400 mm for the Piggy. Height is a tall 105 cm for the 601, and a very short 91 cm for the Piggy. Street price: Don't know about the US; in Europe, they seem to go for $8,500 and $9,000 (price converted from Euro).

Meinl-Weston Tuono or 5450RA: Bore is 20.5-21.5 mm (.807-.846"). Bell diameter: 480 mm (gold brass bell). Height: Short, 98 cm. Street price: $11,800.

Miraphone Bruckner or 291: Bore is 20.4-21.2 mm (.803-.835"). Bell diameter: 470 mm. Height: Short, probably around 100 cm or below. Street price: $9,600.

Rudy Meinl "5/4 C Tuba" or RM1C: Bore is 22 mm (through all 5 valves?). Bell diameter: 500 mm. Height: From the photo it looks taller than a Tono/Bruckner but shorter than a PT-6. Street price: Unknown, but likely higher than the others.

Willson 3050 RZ-5: Bore is 19.5mm (so it is not really a 5/4 tuba in the bore), but it has the 500 mm bell and flare of a larger tuba. Height is 94 cm. Street price: Unknown.

For comparison, the "standard" 4/4 tuba (using the 186 as the prime example) has a bore of 19.5 or 19.6 mm, and a 450 mm bell. To my knowledge, there are no other mainstream manufacturer of 5-valve rotary CC tubas.

EDIT: Added the Cerveny and the Willson, which I forgot the first time around.

Would be a good poll question, eh?

My choice is the Bruckner.

Besides being the only one of the 3 I have tried, I also like Miraphone's company policies (re: China) more than Meinl/B&S. I don't expect that to be important to other people, but it is to me. Hey, you asked...

KiltieTuba wrote:Also, Cerveny makes several 5-valve rotary CC

Added both that, and the Willson to the list. So many interesting choices ...

KiltieTuba wrote: No, no, no... I think this is what Tony is asking:

tclements wrote:Tuono, PT-6, or Bruckner. Why?

Who cares what he actually asked? This is TubeNet. We take things in whatever direction we want to take them.

TubaRay wrote:Who cares what he actually asked? This is TubeNet. We take things in whatever direction we want to take them.

... and that should be a "warning sticky" on the main page (something like "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here" for the new kids) ...

No need to protect Tony from TubeNet. He is more than equal to fending for himself in the face of the TNFJ.

Haven't tried Bruckner and PT 6,but i am proud owner of Tuono:)

ralphbsz wrote:I think what Tony is asking about are 5-rotary valve, 5/4 size (bigger than "standard") CC tubas.

Alexander 163: Bore is 20.5 mm (.808") (through all 5 valves?). Bell diameter: 450mm, available in yellow or gold brass. Height: 103cm. Street price (with 5 valves, the 4-valve and BBb tubas have the same model number but are cheaper): $12,300.

B&S PT-6 or 3098-L: Bore is 19-21 mm (.748-.827"). Bell diameter 480 mm. Height: Pretty tall (looks like the standard "tall chimney" 186 pattern), probably 105 cm. Street price: $11,500.

Cerveny 601 and 603 "Piggy": Bore is 21.2 mm (0.835", graduated?). Bell diameter is 500 mm for the 601, and 400 mm for the Piggy. Height is a tall 105 cm for the 601, and a very short 91 cm for the Piggy. Street price: Don't know about the US; in Europe, they seem to go for $8,500 and $9,000 (price converted from Euro).

Meinl-Weston Tuono or 5450RA: Bore is 20.5-21.5 mm (.807-.846"). Bell diameter: 480 mm (gold brass bell). Height: Short, 98 cm. Street price: $11,800.

Miraphone Bruckner or 291: Bore is 20.4-21.2 mm (.803-.835"). Bell diameter: 470 mm. Height: Short, probably around 100 cm or below. Street price: $9,600.

Rudy Meinl "5/4 C Tuba" or RM1C: Bore is 22 mm (through all 5 valves?). Bell diameter: 500 mm. Height: From the photo it looks taller than a Tono/Bruckner but shorter than a PT-6. Street price: Unknown, but likely higher than the others.

Willson 3050 RZ-5: Bore is 19.5mm (so it is not really a 5/4 tuba in the bore), but it has the 500 mm bell and flare of a larger tuba. Height is 94 cm. Street price: Unknown.

Okaaaayyyyy....so 103-105 cm is "tall", but 98-100 cm is "short"? That's only a couple inches difference between the "tall" and "short" tubas you listed.
I would not call the MW Tuono/Thor or Miraphone Bruckner/1291 "short" tubas -- I'd call them "medium" in height. "Short" contrabass tubas would be the B&S PT-20P, King 2341, CB-50/Getzen CC, etc. The Alex 163, B&S PT-6, Cerveny 601 and R-M 5/4 CC are all tall, I agree. But you left out one important thing in comparing size of these tubas: overall girth. Height, wrap, bell and bore size are important, but girth (bell throat/stack & bottom bow width) trumps them all, imo.

The Miraphone 1291/Bruckner and Alex 163 are not true 5/4 size tubas, imo, because they do not have enough girth -- the bows and bell stacks are too "skinny". I think of them as large 4/4+ tubas. And the Cerveny 601 and R-M "5/4" are both large 5/4+, pushing 6/4 in size.

I've noticed this creeping-up-in-size-definition over the last few years by manufacturers and dealers. Didn't the Alex 163 used to be considered a 4/4 tuba? Every maker has their own size definition....so you gotta go on overall individual tuba size.

bloke wrote:' you guys review "stat's" when you're deciding which women you're attracted to...??

Stats don't matter it's all in the assets.

tooba wrote:... many useful things ...

Thank you for adding much more information. Not being a brass player myself (only the parent of a beginner), I had to rely on published numbers. Which can only be a very crude starting point for comparing instruments.