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I have just finished listening to fodens winning performance of daphne and chole at the last british brass band championships.the two compensating ee flats and the two bb flats sound AMAZING! my question is why is there a prejudice against this type of setup, particularly the bb flat, here in north america? or does it really matter? i am a current owner of a yamaha bb flat neo and is probably the best tuba i have ever owned in my 35+ year career as an a non- professional

The shape of the british 3+1 BBb compensating tubas is just not very ergonomical.
The mouthpipe is too high to put the tuba on the chair (the mouthpiece hits my forehead in that position) and the 4th valve is located just a bit too far away to reach around the front of the horn comfortably.
Soundwise, they are great in brassband, and the 3+1 setup is perfect for fast technical passages in the low and pedal register.
The quality (workmanship and tuning) of the older Bessons varies a lot, but a good one can be very nice.

I have not played one, but your Yamaha Neo seems to tackle the majority ergonomical issues, so enjoy it!

(I don't live in North America though ...)

eeflattuba wrote:my question is why is there a prejudice against this type of setup, particularly the bb flat, here in north america? or does it really matter?

That IS the normal "setup" in British Brass Band...........2 Eb tubas & 2 Bb tubas.

TubaMusikMann wrote:

eeflattuba wrote:my question is why is there a prejudice against this type of setup, particularly the bb flat, here in north america? or does it really matter?

That IS the normal "setup" in British Brass Band...........2 Eb tubas & 2 Bb tubas.

i understand this is the normal setup. i have played in a british style brass band for over 25 years. my question is why is not the 3 +1 setup used more in north america? it works in the british isles.

Because this is NOT the British Isles...........this is America!
We DON'T do things all ***-backwards like the Brits do.

The OP said he played a Yamaha Neo Eflat tube. This Neo model has the 4th valve moved in front of the outer branch] behind the third valve slide for an easier reach. The BBb Neo has the same advantage.

My hat is off to all those great Brass Bands in England. Wish we had more brass bands here in the USA. You can listen to Foden's winning performance of "Electra" by Martin Ellerby here:

Fodens Band The winning performance
Remember, this is contest piece. If you don't care for the beginning of this piece, fast forward to about 8:35 to hear the tubas playing a nice duet — which is then answered by euphoniums.

TubaMusikMann wrote:Because this is NOT the British Isles...........this is America!
We DON'T do things all ***-backwards like the Brits do.

point taken. i live in canada. still some very good tuba playing........ does not matter from which country you live in.

Rick F wrote:The OP said he played a Yamaha Neo Eflat tube. This Neo model has the 4th valve moved in front of the outer branch] behind the third valve slide for an easier reach. The BBb Neo has the same advantage.

My hat is off to all those great Brass Bands in England. Wish we had more brass bands here in the USA. You can listen to Foden's winning performance of "Electra" by Martin Ellerby here:

Fodens Band The winning performance
Remember, this is contest piece. If you don't care for the beginning of this piece, fast forward to about 8:35 to hear the tubas playing a nice duet — which is then answered by euphoniums.

+1 thank-you. and i play a bb flat neo.

With America being so heavily weighted in orchestra and concert bands, the top side compensators are not popular here. I think the British comps are great horns and in the experienced hands have a great sound. But since the vast majority of tubists here in the USA are orchestral bound, we see them as "*** backwards" without looking at what they are made to do. The whole theory behind the playing for orchestra and brass band are totally different. Personally I would rather invest my time in a section of 4 great players with challenging music than counting a 100 measures of rest and drooling over 12 measures by myself. But those guys counting rests get paid big $$.

eeflattuba wrote:my question is why is there a prejudice against this type of setup, particularly the bb flat, here in north america? or does it really matter? i am a current owner of a yamaha bb flat neo and is probably the best tuba i have ever owned in my 35+ year career as an a non- professional

Sorry, I completely misunderstood your question:

why is there a prejudice against this type of setup, particularly the bb flat, here in north america?

I thought you were referring to the Eb vs Bb issue.
Now I see you meant by the type of setup, the Bb compensator. I do think they are great sounding horns, but
why did they have to put the 4th valve in such an awkward place?
I have never seen nor heard of a Neo BBb before & now I see that they did make a slight improvement by
placing the 4th valve in a little more accessible location.

My apologies to the OP. With his handle being "eeflattuba", I thought he had the Neo eefer... didn't read his post clearly. Sorry.

There's a good video about the Yamaha Neo BBb tuba (YBB-632S) and the Neo Euph (YEP-642II). Simon Gresswell is a very accomplished tuba player being part of 19 major titles in European Brass Band competitions. If you watch the video around 6:30 Simon talks about the 4th valve ergonomics and how much easier it is to reach.

YAMAHA Neo Brass Instruments

eeflattuba wrote:my question is why is not the 3 +1 setup used more in north america? it works in the british isles.

Different traditions!

In some part, it's because the big Bessons are ergonomic nightmares for those of us who are short and don't have long arms.

eeflattuba wrote:I have just finished listening to fodens winning performance of daphne and chole at the last british brass band championships.the two compensating ee flats and the two bb flats sound AMAZING! my question is why is there a prejudice against this type of setup, particularly the bb flat, here in north america? or does it really matter? i am a current owner of a yamaha bb flat neo and is probably the best tuba i have ever owned in my 35+ year career as an a non- professional

Thank you. We're very proud of the sound we make and this performance in general. Especially as it was recorded live at the Royal Albert Hall.

Rick F wrote:You can listen to Foden's winning performance of "Electra" by Martin Ellerby here:

Fodens Band The winning performance
Remember, this is contest piece. If you don't care for the beginning of this piece, fast forward to about 8:35 to hear the tubas playing a nice duet — which is then answered by euphoniums.

Rick,

There are in fact 2 duets - a BBb duet (starting on a low Concert F) and then an Eb duet - I'm playing in both of them (work that one out!)

PhilGreen wrote:

Rick F wrote:You can listen to Foden's winning performance of "Electra" by Martin Ellerby here:

Fodens Band The winning performance
Remember, this is contest piece. If you don't care for the beginning of this piece, fast forward to about 8:35 to hear the tubas playing a nice duet — which is then answered by euphoniums.

Rick,

There are in fact 2 duets - a BBb duet (starting on a low Concert F) and then an Eb duet - I'm playing in both of them (work that one out!)

That's awesome. In my opinion there isn't much other playing tubists can do that is more fun that playing as a tight section in a good Brass Band. When the band and the sections are top notch its great to experience. I myself grew up with a Besson 994 that is close to the Imperial design. I played it through college and eventually bought my Willson. My hat is off to the British and their playing technique. Its flawless.

Rick F wrote:The OP said he played a Yamaha Neo Eflat tube. This Neo model has the 4th valve moved in front of the outer branch] behind the third valve slide for an easier reach. The BBb Neo has the same advantage.

My hat is off to all those great Brass Bands in England. Wish we had more brass bands here in the USA. You can listen to Foden's winning performance of "Electra" by Martin Ellerby here:

Fodens Band The winning performance
Remember, this is contest piece. If you don't care for the beginning of this piece, fast forward to about 8:35 to hear the tubas playing a nice duet — which is then answered by euphoniums.

You'd be surprised by the number of brass bands in the US. Check out the membership list at NABBA (http://www.nabba.org/" target="_blank).

There are also a number of extremely high quality BB's here including Central Florida, Fountain City, Chicago BB, Atlantic BB and others.