TubeNet

We have all read it here before. Some 16-20 year old looking on tubenet to buy a CC tuba because his college teacher "requires" it. Then a bunch of people here saying that is BS and that only American colleges do this and that no one else does this or cares.

Well I just had this happen to me in Germany, with BBb tuba. I sat down with a well known player and teacher in the area. Talking shop and I brought up wanting to take some lessons. Well he answer was that he could not teach me on CC tuba as the CC tuba is "inappropriate" for German orchestras. He said that he could teach me on F tuba but would not work on contrabass tuba until I had a BBb tuba.

Now I'm no beginner, and I make my living playing tuba. All i wanted was to get a different view on tuba playing. But this just reminded me that everywhere you go you have to deal with BS like this.

Discuss

Good post. I'm glad this player wasn't told that Bb instruments are a requirement, and C instruments are inappropriate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il5mUq3foqI" target="_blank

Ace

Not all American orchestral tubists play CC- I'm told this gentleman is one of the few who plays BBb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlBsO7ewjh8" target="_blank"

I am glad that my teacher, Connie Weldon (a very fine BB flat player) did not tell me she would not teach me CC. She was an excellent musician and teacher of the tuba so she taught students how to play the ........tuba (fill in the key of choice)!

Mark

Perhaps an idea for a a test with a wink on your next workshop/conference or whatever:

A bunch of Bb and CC tubas played in mixed (but numbered) order behind a curtain....
The audience has to indicate which one is Bb, which one CC....
Curious about the outcome.....
Hubert

I'm an American living in Switzerland and I've been lucky in these regards (I can play whatever I want here as long as it sounds good) but occasionally someone will make a remark that I should be playing another type of tuba. To this I generally say," Are you more interested in watching my fingers than listening to what comes out of my horn?" This usualy stops any further remarks.

However in Germany they have their traditions and no one can change them. (Ask Roger Bobo and Sasha Johnson on their views on this). The Germans have been doing things their way for years and years and it has worked for them so why would they need to change it? It's maybe good that not all the orchestras in the world sound the same. Globalisierung is changing everything else thankfully we still have orchestras which sound different . (New York, Chicago, Berlin and Leipzig).

People have tried CC tubas but in Germany most of the orchestras are run by the state; it's the state which decides what goes.

I would imagine that this German tuba player has never really tried a CC tuba thus feeling at a disadvantage to teach you something. If you really wanted to get his knowledge, I would go to him with a really large rotary BBb and see what he has to offer. Playing a really large BBb tuba really does wonders for sound and breath control and will certainly be benficial to playing your large Nirschl after.

I was at a masterclass with Alexander von Puttkamer (Berlin Philharmonic) a couple of years ago, and he said some of the same sorts of things about not feeling comfortable teaching CC tuba, since the Germans are all on BBb (and he also said that if you want to study in Germany, you will have to play BBb).

His concern was more about the physical parts of playing the tuba, like which are the good/bad notes on the horn, good/bad registers, how to blow the air, etc. (It's certainly quite a bit different to play a 6/4 York than a 6/4 Kaisertuba.) In that regard, it made sense to me.

Consider it a bullet dodged. Thank him for making the choice so easy for you.

If he cares about the pitch of the horn then you know two things already: First, that this is not someone who is really concerned about what really matters - the tuba in your head and getting that sound out of the horn; and second, that this is someone who is probably somewhat limited as a player and certainly as a teacher if he cannot get music out of any horn, regardless of the key. The last thing you need in a teacher is someone who is essentially a glorified plumber with hangups of his own that he is happy to pass on to you.

Honestly I wish there were more of these people in the world. It is nice to recognize a mistake before it can happen.

Aside: When I was in high school and a trumpet player, I was a student of David Coleman. He was teaching a camp for high school students that concluded with a full on performance with his pro group (which then included Norlan Bewley). Minutes before the gig he confided in me that he forgot his piccolo trumpet and asked to borrow mine. I did not have mine with me that day so he had not choice but to play the piece with a full size Bb. Dave was somehow able to reshape his sound on the big horn to make it sound exactly like a Schilke P5-4. I literally could not tell it was not a picc. Blew me away.

To this day I use that memory to remind myself that the instrument (in the right hands) has ultimately less baring on your sound and performance than most people give it credit for.

Curmudgeon wrote:That being said, I have and occasionally use a large rotary BBb. I absolutely did not and do not need to have nor use it. I wanted to know and experience what these folks felt was the advantage such a tuba provided.

What a smart approach! I do the same thing. Whenever anyone with some credibility in our field says something like this that I feel is a bit "out there", I don't dismiss their comments without really trying to find the facts that may or may not be apparent to me. I tend to agree with what others have posted here, the horn you're holding only does so much and the player really controls most of the product. Saying that CC tuba isn't a good choice for orchestra makes as little sense to me as saying that F tuba should be one's main orchestral horn. Yet many European tubists have been doing that for years. Keeping an open mind and asking questions is still the best way to actually learn something.

Seriously. Who gives a crap? What does it SOUND like? SHEESH!

The longer I'm exposed to discussions about this... the more I'm glad that I'm not at a playing level for this to really be an issue for me. I play what I like rather than what pleases someone else. If I ever show up for a gig and the director insists that I use a CC tuba instead of a BBb... I'll simply pack up my stuff and go home.

Same goes for the argument of whether I use bass clef or treble clef music in a brass band setting.

Tradition be damned!

Ace wrote:Good post. I'm glad this player wasn't told that Bb instruments are a requirement, and C instruments are inappropriate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il5mUq3foqI" target="_blank" target="_blank

Ace

The saxophone is in Bb

oedipoes wrote:

Ace wrote:Good post. I'm glad this player wasn't told that Bb instruments are a requirement, and C instruments are inappropriate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il5mUq3foqI" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Ace

The saxophone is in Bb

Just in case you are unclear, when I said "this player" I was referring to the young woman playing a C trumpet.

Ace

tclements wrote:Seriously. Who gives a crap? What does it SOUND like? SHEESH!

+1,000,000,000,000...............