The Standard For Bass Trombones

[Liberty Mo]

Please don’t flame me for starting a bass trombone thread, but because many of us double, and the tuba is so intertwined with the bass trombone, the topic is valid.

It appears, at least on this board, that the standard bearer for the greatest tubist of all time is arguably Arnold Jacobs. A search of the archives reveals no other tubist who draws so much conversation as to his technique, his sound, and the imitation of his horn.

So who then would be his counterpart on the bass trombone? Kleinhammer, George Roberts, Yeo, Vernon? Is there arguably a definitive bass trombonist who all others seek to imitate at the level those do of Jacobs?

I would say it would Kleinhammer as no other bass trombonist has probably influenced those currently playing the instrument or the development of the horn itself (especially the dual rotor system).

Your opinions?

[JayW]

I would agree with you, while Yeo, Vernon and others are no doubt influential, Kleinhammer raised the bar for them to reach. That being said, I don't know if you could consider what he did as "ground breaking" (cant think of another way to describe it) as Arnold Jacobs. Especially since Jacobs influence has far extended past the tuba and well into all forms of wind playing, especially brass. Just my thought FWIW

[Liberty Mo]

Certainly Jacobs was by far more influental when it came to brass pedagogy and teachings of brass musicianship. I am just looking to get an idea of who would top the list of bass trombonists when considering most influental on the instrument. Let me be clear, I do not think that anyone can really be compared to Jacobs when considering influence on brass musicianship.

[Mudman]

Charlie Vernon. (Before him Kleinhammer and also George Roberts who influenced just about everybody through his recordings with Sinatra.)

Nobody but Charlie gets special recognition on National Public Radio. At the end of a Tchaikovsky Symphony there was one broadcast where the NPR announcer said "and that was Cowboy Charlie Vernon accompanied by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra."

I nearly died laughing when I heard it

Anoter player who is becoming known as the main-man of bass and contra-bass trombone is Ben van Dijk. His former student Brandt Attema is poised to take over the underworld.

[WoodSheddin]

For me it is Charlie Vernon. He is phenominal. I have also heard him play tenor trombone in a quintet and was in tears. Absolutelly beautiful playing.

Klenhammer is the grandfather of modern trombone playing though.

BTW, I grew up in Lawson, MO.

[daktx2]

for commercial and jazz playing, george roberts. there is no orchestral bass bonist that has the same stature as arnold jacobs.

[Chuck Jackson]

Here's the set-up. I am an 18 YO kid who has NEVER been out of NY in his short life and I end up at the Brevard Music Center. Kudzu, grits, the whole nine yards. The first night there is a recital. Out walks this guy, kinda wierd looking with a trombone. He proceeds to play the absolute **** out of the Dufay Two Dances and the Creston. I mean, he plays the stuff like he wrote it for himself. After picking up my jaw off the floor I go back after intermission, here comes the same guy. He plays the Bach 1st Suite on Bass Trombone. Flawlessy, stunningly. That was my first introduction to Charlie Vernon.

Fast forward about 6 weeks. Jamie Hafner(a GREAT tuba player who is too often overlooked) is conducting the Wind Ensemble. I play a concert where the same said Charlie Vernon plays the Frank Martin Ballad and Gordon Jacob Cameos on the same concert.

BUT, my favorite memory is of Charley walking between the lake and his cabin near the main entrance playing Entrance of the Gods Into Valhalla . Didn't miss a note, was loud as sin, and clean as a baby's bottom right out of the tub. And his stories about being on the road with Paul Revere and the Raiders were priceless.

The guy gets a bad rap sometimes for taking out an entire orchestra( I seem to remember a Low C in the last Chorale in Brahms 1 that is still bouncing off the Blue Ridge), but he is quite possibly the best brass musician since Dennis Brain. I'd take Brain for sheer musicality, but Charlie would be invited to that table, only set for two, and no more.

Chuck

P.S.- He was the other trombone in the finals when Joe Alessi won the NYPO Principal job. Go Figure.

[Dan Satterwhite]

I'll second (or third, or whatever) Charlie Vernon. He is one of the few brass musicians today that truly transcends the instrument...often making listeners forget that he's playing a trombone. My introduction to Charlie was more simple than Chuck's. I was a euphonium student at Brevard in 19...uh...whatever. I was walking down the road, and heard Charlie playing Prelude to Act III of Lohengrin. That was the moment that I decided to become a bass trombone player.

Charlie has been raked over the coals numerous times on the internet, and he's basically told me that he doesn't care. No matter what opinion one might have of his orchestral bass trombone playing, what counts is the opinion of the music directors for whom he has served, who all have held or currently hold him in the highest esteem. As far as the rest of us are concerned, he certainly enjoys the accolades, and accepts the criticism for what it is. Charlie is the closest thing that the bass trombone world has to a celebrity (from a "tabloid" point of view), and with that comes the good and the bad. Charlie is extremely confident in his abilities and his musicality, and that, along with not being afraid to take chances, is what makes him who he is.

I spent many summers at Brevard with Charlie, and I remember his recitals and orchestral playing just like Chuck does...awe-inspiring. There was a solo appearance with the band a few summers ago where Charlie was playing the Derek Bourgeois Concerto on tenor. Amazing playing throughout, but there was a point in the the second movement where he was holding an incredibly loud and beautiful high c# on top of the accompaniment that was one of the greatest musical moments I have ever heard...anywhere. Then, there was the solo recital at ITF in 1998 (I think) where he played Mahler 5th with the CSO on Friday night, got in the car and drove to Urbana, got 4 hours sleep, and rehearsed at 8 am with Eric Ewazen. At 9 am, he played the most amazing recital I have ever heard out of him. A premiere of Ewazen's Ballade for Bass Trombone, Mahler's Kindertotenlieder (all 25 minutes of it) on alto, a French piece on tenor, and John Williams' Tuba Concerto to close. He had only started working on the John Williams the previous week, and it sounded better than most of us could ever hope to play it. An hour later, he played a low brass recital with his CSO section mates, playing alto, tenor, and bass. Then a drive back to Chicago to play Mahler 5th that night. And, turning 57 this year, he only gets better and better.

His new solo CD is a showcase of his wonderful sound and musicality. Unfortunately, most of what has been written about it on the trombone forums are complaints of the liner notes calling the John Williams a bass trombone concerto, which, Charlie would be the first to admit, it isn't. I would encourage anyone interested (and as tubists, there's plenty to be interested in...Halsey Stevens, Spillman Two Songs, Ewazen Concerto, and John Williams) to overlook the inaccuracy of the CD notes, and enjoy the phenomenal playing.

Dan

ps: father of American Orchestral Bass Trombone playing? Edward Kleinhammer, hands down.

pps: I have fond memories of Chuck Jackson...a Marzan tuba...and a big can of Zip Strip.

[phoenix]

I happen to enjoy listening to Blair Bollinger of the Philly Orchestra blow over the entire brass section. I think it's so awesome. This coming from a tuba player...