Moving face while playing

[Tuboss2]

So when it comes to facial movement. I assume the norm is try not to move face too much? Or move as little as you can? Or does it not matter?

[Doug Elliott]

Yes it matters.
The right amount, the right direction, as little (or as much) as necessary.
This is exactly what I teach... finding your own personal correct mechanics so your playing can be as easy and efficient as possible.
Excess motion is not efficient, but too little is not effective.
There is no one answer, everybody's face is different.

[Biggs]

It depends on how much gum you're chewing at the time.

[TubaRay]

It depends on how much gum you're chewing at the time.

I can only assume that the brand also matters.

[fireatwil]

I would not even be concerned with face movement, unless the movement actually impacts the sound quality.
I used to think about it myself until I heard the Boston Brass live. Andrew Hitz was still playing with them. If you have ever seen them you will know what I mean. Andrew is a phenomenal player. And he really has a lot of facial movement when he plays.
Before that I even remember using a mirror to see what kind of facial movement was going on when I played. But now, I don't even give it much thought at all.
Who cares how much movement is going on, as long as it does not impact your playing. I even think that the focus and attention (before) on my movement could have been a distraction and impacted my playing more than the actual movement that was going on.

[Doug Elliott]

Focusing on it can definitely be detrimental if you don't know what you should be looking at or for. That's the origin or "paralysis by analysis" - when you're "anal-yzing" with no real knowledge of the subject but you're dong it anyway and just confusing yourself.

[fireatwil]

Guilty as charged on that one. I think you hit the nail right on the head (paralysis by analysis)
Anyway I think the focus on my sound was far more beneficial that getting hung up on what my facial movements were.
Not to minimize the advantage that I could gain by making some changes in facial movements. But in the big picture I am way better off spending those thought/rehearsal cycles on other areas where I get much more ROI (return on investment), and much less negative impact (paralysis factor).

[patricklugo]

for me , moving my face does not help my playing.
I suffered from delayed attacks in college and that was the reason I switched majors. music became a burden for me. It was not fun.

I knew certain pieces will give me trouble. for that reason, that problem held me back as a player.

none of my past teachers could help. they thought that the problem was a lack of confidence.

now that I am working with a teacher that understands the problem. it makes it a whole lot easier and I same thankful for his patience and teaching.

now I know if something that doesn't sound good. I can trace it down by looking to see if I am puffing my cheek, playing with pressure or moving my embouchure.

before i had no clue to what was going on. Thank you JAY BERTOLET for a good lesson. thank you for constantly reminded me of the bar. thank you for your patience and guidance!!!

[Tuboss2]

Tell me this, the louder I play, you face is going to move more right? I noticed when playing Forte and louder, I start noticing a little more movement. I don't sound bad or anything,(atleast not anymore haha). But when I get to the extremes(FFF-FFFF) I see a lot of movement in my embourchure. I just wanted to know if that's the same for y'all too.

[fireatwil]

Now this whole thread may turn out to be quite helpful for me.

Here I was making the assumption all these years that when things started to sound bad (when playing) it must have been related to the number of beers consumed at that time

So maybe I can forget about worrying about the number of beers at which time things go terribly bad, and just trace it directly down to the specific face movements ...or then again on second thought it could have been the face movement, or lack of movement due to the number of beers that I had consumed. Maybe it is time for a beer after all.
Oh my!

[ken k]

it is difficult to get consistent centered and focused attacks if the embouchure inside the mouthpiece moves too much and is never the same set. Face movement outside the mouthpiece is not the most important factor. it is what is happening inside the mouthpiece that really matters.

ken k

[Untersatz]

But when I get to the extremes(FFF-FFFF) I see a lot of movement in my embourchure.

You can see your embouchure? what does it look like?

[Tuboss2]

But when I get to the extremes(FFF-FFFF) I see a lot of movement in my embourchure.

You can see your embouchure? what does it look like?

Well, when playing tuba...I just look at my reflection. Sousa...gotta play Infront of a mirror and see what's going on. Glass hasn't shattered yet...surprisingly.

[Wes Krygsman]

A lot of movement/shifting, but it sounds amazing. Do what works, don't be excessive for no reason.
http://youtu.be/gvpD62f5zBQ" target="_blank" target="_blank

hope that link works...

[eupher61]

It depends on what is moving and how. If your lips are moving with every articulation, it just may be a problem. Maybe. If it's chin moving, like chewing each note, that's more likely a problem. Cheeks, eyes,eyebrows, ears, scalp, probably not a problem.

[b.williams]

A few of my past euphonium section mates have commented on how my face moves when I play. They had a good view of it because they were sitting to my right.

I find that my face moves a lot with the euphonium and not so much on tuba, trombone, and trumpet. I think that the angle of the horn has a lot to do with my facial movement.

[Tuboss2]

The (debilitating) thing that I've seen a few players do (two professionals who work around the Mid-South, among others) is to RESET their embouchure for every single note or musical event. Needless to say, that habit is a horrible stumbling block.

So...they never use one consistent embourchure? Interesting. Could it be because of weak chops bloke?
Also, lets add this into this thread: the the bell of a tuba of sousaphone require more attention to your hearing because of where it's at. I'm asking because for example what I think is MF, is FF to others. Like to know what y'all think about that.

[Tuboss2]

All right, I can't resist !
TB, watch this video and learn.
It is the best study of embrsure ever undertaken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyxXOcHhYV4" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

As to listening to yourself; I propose you can train yourself quick and easy.
Go outside where it's quiet and stand next to a brick or stucco wall. Play as quietly as you possibly can. Then
Walk back fifty feet and do it again. Then go another fifty feet. And then another fifty feet and so on until you're
250-300 feet away. You won't here yourself after about 100-150 feet but I want you to try it at twice that far.
You'll notice that you still hear something even at maximum distance; it just won't sound very distinct.
The point of this last part is this: You'll be contributing to the band's sound even when you can't hear yourself as long as you're playing !

Another young man posted most of the same questions a few months ago and asked me how to play louder and I had to admit
I don't know how. I told him of the times I warmed up to play alone in a forty piece band and thought "there's know way" but when
We stepped off, I found I had it covered easily. I guess I just relaxed and let my mouth do its own thing.

Got ya goodgigs. And about the feet thing, I can't really do that. But this week, I'm going to be paying extra extra attention to what I'm doing and the kind of sound I'm producing. Needless to say its gonna be a mind-taxing affair. But it's gotta be done.

[Tuboss2]

Got ya goodgigs. And about the feet thing, I can't really do that. But this week, I'm going to be paying extra extra attention to what I'm doing and the kind of sound I'm producing. Needless to say its gonna be a mind-taxing affair. But it's gotta be done.

Excuse me tuba bossa nova, I think you're missing something important here:
Just as tape recorders have volume controls, big rooms - and especially small rooms - distort your sound and change what you hear.
I highly recommend playing outdoors. If you don't have a building you can echo against, you can still play outdoors with your section mates and
get them to play at different volumes and different distances to experiment. You need to here yourself (or other tubas) the way other people do.
Recording is great for articulation and tuning, but nothing will show you your own dynamic levels as well as hearing echoes - be they outdoor echoes or
indoor echoes in a huge room somewhere.
Maybe play in the gym or just take your tuba to church. (I would recommend waiting until service is over though).

PS I found a comment on one of my videos where someone called my horn the devil’s voice.

PPS please don’t feel insulted: the “bossa nova” was once a very popular dance.

Playing outside I have done recently. I usually take my sousaphone outside and screw around. I am able to hear an echo(a pretty audible one) when playing a low E at FFF. It's a pretty distant echo too. So that's pretty cool. My low range is coming up to par with my middle register.

I'll try and get a video up of me playing outside sometime this week. And I'll send it to you. And you can critique it.

[Untersatz]

PPS please don’t feel insulted: the “bossa nova” was once a very popular dance.

I've never heard the term "bossa nova" referred to as a dance before

Bossa Nova is a style of music that originated in South America (Brazil, if I'm not mistaken).
It's a beat (a rhythm) and I still love it! Good music NEVER goes out of style with me
Here is about the best example of what bossa nova is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FolEno814Gk" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
Hey, that bass solo at 2:04 would be very cool on tuba!