TubeNet

cktuba wrote:Anybody tried one of these yet?

http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/kmturbo ... /index.asp" target="_blank" target="_blank

They look cool enough. Where are those guys that were posting about playing louder and mouthpieces?

never tried one myself,but some players say they are good for outdoor playing in the cold weather,as they hold the heat easier and longer ,
therefore more in tune and more comfortable

Tubaleck wrote:some players say

These are new mouthpieces. I bet a quarter you've never met anyone who's played one. The patented internal helical thing is wild, if it sticks it will be a notable innovation in an area where not much has changed since the 19th century.

It looks like they have rifled the barrel of the mouthpiece.

For a Lexan mouthpiece, $93 is a little steep.

Mark wrote: For a Lexan mouthpiece

I don't think that has anything to do with it.

The Kelly mouthpieces everyone knows are copies - Helleberg copy, Bach 16 copy, etc. They're priced competitively with other copies - Faxx, etc. They can make them cheaper, and it's a good deal, you get a design that's been tested for generations plus whatever tweaks Kelly may make. This is no copy, it's a new design, patented even. It's competitive with Monette. Monette works with gold plated metal (brass I assume), Kelly works with polycarbonate plastic, but they aren't just selling the material.

http://www.exbrass.de" target="_blank

http://www.exbrass.de/index.php?option= ... lang=en_gb" target="_blank

I'm surprised that nobody has used "Vortex" as a new mouthpiece technology.
The name "Vortex" is used widely in the automotive industry. I can just hear it
now "Vortex, more power with less effort" Increase your horsepower by 50%

So when you'd like to have your BBb BAT feel less stuffy, this is what you need bud!

...so my question is... does this concept even have any validity? I'm not running out to plunk down $93 for a mouthpiece right now in any case but can anyone with more technical knowledge than I (which is most everyone) offer an opinion on whether this could actually be an improvement on mouthpiece design?
Thanks
Pete

ppalan wrote:...so my question is... does this concept even have any validity? I'm not running out to plunk down $93 for a mouthpiece right now in any case but can anyone with more technical knowledge than I (which is most everyone) offer an opinion on whether this could actually be an improvement on mouthpiece design?
Thanks
Pete

Calling on Mr. Rick Denney..........knower of all things
Is there any valid claim to any improvements in sound, tone or volume of this new mouthpiece design?
And if so, why haven't we seen ANY radial design changes like this in over 100 years?
I'm just sayin'

cktuba wrote:I think the concept has validity, in that it will have an effect. The question is, is the effect positive or negative for the majority of players?

I think the concept has validity, in that it will have an effect. The question is, [will it have ANY effect] for the majority of players?

Mouthpiece throat modifications have been around since the 19th century.
One of the most significant was the "Embouchure Rayee [Grooved mouthpiece]/Guilbaut/Bte SGDG[Patented Without Guarantee of the Government]" mouthpiece, first marketed by Pepper, then taken up by Couesnon.



Since, as the TurboBore marketing suggests, you are creating a standing sound wave, I propose that it is only as good as it makes YOU feel mentally (Like when I stripped the lacquer from the bell of my Marzan, I could HEAR a difference. Only trouble was that it was only within the immediate 10'). Never-the-less, anything that makes you play MORE CONFIDENTLY is worth its weight in gold!

My guess is that the effect will be that you can play louder with less effort than a normal mouthpiece. I'm not sure that's a good thing for most people, but it could be popular in the DCI crowds or something.

My opinion (without trying one) is that the internal helix is entirely marketing.

The sound wave within a Tuba isn't at all like the water flow shown in the soda bottle pics from the european ad (Thanks to 2165 for that link).The helical flow pattern shown in the sales pics for draining a soda bottle is like DC flow. A sound wave is (by definition) AC flow.
As an electrical engineer, I know that some things that work for DC current don't work for AC current. The converse is also true. If you have pure DC flow, the largest wire possible is best because it presents the lowest resistance. High frequency AC circuit design benefits from SMALLER current paths (resulting in a lower resistance at the chosen frequency) that would actually have a higher resistance if they were only DC circuits.

Relating this back to mouthpiece design -
Why a soda bottle benefits from the helical flow - it helps create a reverse air stream in the center of the fluid stream that equalizes pressure in the bottle. A good air pressure relief valve at the other end of the bottle would do the same thing, and would actually allow even more flow through the opening because there isn't a lost section of the opening used for reverse air flow.
Comparable to playing a tuba? Not really. When you play a tuba, the pipe is open at both ends. There's hardly any back-pressure, and even less of that back pressure affects the sound wave. As far as the air flow at the mouthpiece, I don't recall needing to have air come backwards through the mouthpiece while I play.

I'd be interested to know if there's any advantage at all in practice. Theory doesn't always translate directly...
I'd also be interested to know if this concept is good for a particular playing range (Low notes are more like steady DC current, High notes are more like high frequency AC current).

What's really curious to me - do the ribs on the outside of the mouthpiece change the vibrational properties of the lexan enough to change the sound, or is that also just marketing?

As long as we're throwing out guesses, here's mine - there could be a positive effect, or a negative effect, but not because of a general air flow improvement - that's not how the tuba works, it isn't like some giant whistle that needs a great rush of air and your job is to push that through the mouthpiece. But that isn't to say air flow around the mouthpiece throat isn't important - some makers bore a little `reverse taper' in there, for another example of throat details that seem to matter. The helix probably does something in there, and there's at least a chance it's something good and that's why it's on the market now.

As for the ribs outside - decorative.

Chances are, the "concept" is pure marketing.
The reality is a bigger backbore.

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cktuba wrote:The LM 12 is pretty much the polar opposite of what I am looking for. My interest in this model stems from looking for a Lexan mouthpiece (I find Lexan to be more comfortable) with the projection of a metal mouthpiece. I am looking for a deep Helleberg style mouthpiece in the 33mm range.

Why not take a look at Doug Elliot's offerings? My brother-in-law has a Doug Elliot mouthpiece he uses on his Euphonium.
Lexan rim, metal body, metal shank. I think that matches your description above.

Here's the link (if it's allowed for a non-sponsor): http://www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com/cbtuba.html