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So here goes my first post.
Years ago I played as an amateur in college, you know marching band, brass choir, quintet, but I was not a music major. Just a guy who loves music and loved playing. I even piled enough tips from waiting tables together to buy a new Mirafone 186. Unfortunately, I sold that tuba on this forum way back in '99 or '00.

Recently I started playing again, and I am still working on getting a better tuba. It has not gone well, and maybe that will be another post.

Now. I want to do TubaChristmas in Richmond and my daughter is pestering me about playing too. However, she is a horn player and does not play the baritone or euphonium (yet . BUT I did inherit a mint condition King 'Altonium' from my mom a few years ago and we have had it brought up to working condition and she has been playing it and having a blast. (which is the point I think).

Since it is in the basic shape of a baritone and tuba, is it eligible for TubaChristmas? If I register her and buy the Treble clef Baritone part, will she be able to play it? She currently plays a F horn. I would like to send off our registrations soon and did not want to register her if she could not play the music or horn. I guess I should know the answer to these questions but unfortunately, I do not. So I ask the monks of Tuba for their help



I am pretty excited, I haven't played TubaChristmas since I Iived in Dallas years ago.

David

Interesting horn. I doubt that anyone at a TubaChristmas event would know that it's not a Baritone as long as she can play the parts, but that may be difficult.
The Baritone Treble Clef music is transposed for Baritone in Bb, so Middle C on the TC line is transposed down 9 steps (1 octave + 1 step) to Bb.
If your daughter only knows F Horn fingerings, the transposition will not match because those parts are only transposed down 4 steps (from middle C to F, 5 steps above Bb).

Edit - If she's not used to transposing music on the fly, I'd suggest trying the Bass Clef book instead. That way, she's at least reading concert pitch.

If the altonium is in eb, all she has to do is read the bass clef part life treble clef(single horn or trumpet) an octave up.

When she sees an eb (3 space in the bass staff) she can use the fingerings for the c below the treble....etc... (Adding three flats, of course)

Beware of a naturals and e naturals.
______

If it's in f, you're on your own...

I don't think the Tuba Christmas bureaucracy (if such there be) enforces rigid entrance requirements. Maybe if you showed up with a flugelhorn you might have to argue that it was really a soprano tuba, but I doubt that anyone would care. Now a trumpet or cornet might be going too far.

I have definitely seen people show up with various kinds of tenor horns, alto horns, and marching baritones. And saxhorns. And even (a couple of years ago when I went to Greensboro) a serpent. I don't recall personally seeing an ophicleide, but I'm sure someone has dragged one to a Tuba Christmas. The altonium is definitely more baritone-ish than a lot of these things. If anyone notices, it will probably just get a lot of interest and attention.

PMeuph wrote:If the altonium is in eb ... If it's in f, you're on your own...

Good points about Eb vs F and reading Bass clef as if it's the usual transposed Treble clef for an Eb altohorn (with 2 flats deleted / 2 sharps added).
It looks like the case has the main slide crook for changing the pitch to Eb. If so, that's the way I'd go (use the Eb tuning crook and play from the Bass clef book).

@ David - Remember to pull the valve slides out to tune for the differences from the F pitch main slide to the Eb pitch main slide if that's the way you choose.
If she's still in grade school, she just might have time after school to learn the concert pitch names+fingerings for either Eb or F in Bass Clef.

The horn is a King Trombonium. I've got one just like it. Sounds remarkably like a trombone and is much less stuffy than a valve trombone. Keyed in Bb and will play TC parts fingered just like a trumpet. In addition, nothing keeps you from using BC fingerings just like a euph. It's a bright horn and would likely be an interesting addition to the Tuba Christmas sound.

Pat S wrote:The horn is a King Trombonium. I've got one just like it. Sounds remarkably like a trombone and is much less stuffy than a valve trombone. Keyed in Bb and will play TC parts fingered just like a trumpet. In addition, nothing keeps you from using BC fingerings just like a euph. It's a bright horn and would likely be an interesting addition to the Tuba Christmas sound.

If you have one just like it.... you have an Eb alto horn.

This is a trombonium.....

Yes it is an altonium and is in F. It does have the Eb piece as well. I will research it a bit further and then place an order. I thank you guys for your time.

I bought the same instrument for my daughter, a horn player, after she was playing for 2 years. She was already learning how to read bass clef as some horn in F music is written in bass clef. That's the best way to go. You can also write the letter names of some of the notes over the sprinted notes.

As far as the sound, if it was a small Tubachristmas ensemble, where the sound of an F alto horn could be audible, I know Harvey wouldn't have been pleased. He wanted to hear the pure sound of a tuba/euphonium choir. Trombones were just plain not permitted to play. I remember in the early 80's sometime, someone got on the ice (NYC-Rockefeller Center) playing a soprano horn shaped like an alto horn or baritone horn. Even in NYC, where we had between 400-500 players, you could clearly hear this trumpet type instrument and Harvey wasn't pleased.

I would think if the ensemble isn't smaller than 50 players or so, and your daughter doesn't play loudly, that the sound of the ensemble wouldn't be affected. And, hardly anyone would pick out an alto horn visually. It looks like a little baritone horn.

Go for it!

Dan, you must be right about this being a different horn. It's a King Trombonium and it's in Bb... just checked. Thanks for calling me out on it... gave me a chance to spend some time playing it today. I'd been ignoring it recently!

"Since it is in the basic shape of a baritone and tuba, is it eligible for TubaChristmas? "

If they do not like the Altonium in Richmond come to the Bel Air, Maryland TubaChristmas. We will be happy to see you, your daughter your tuba and the Altonium. We have a very fine French Horn player that shows up with an E flat alto horn.

I know that is a long distance from Richmond to Bel Air, so enjoy TubaChristmas Richmond.

that is a cool looking instrument,
Mark

I am the coordinator of Merry Tuba Christmas, Bel AIr, Maryland. During our run, we have had several horn players play with us using Eb alto horns. We tell them to buy the bass clef parts and read them as if they are treble clef down one octave. Also, mentally add 3 sharps to the key signature. If the bass clef part is in Bb major with 2 flats, two of the three added sharps cancel the two flats and leaves one sharp, G major, in the treble clef key signature. The accidentals will require a raising or lowering of 1/2 step depending on whether it is a sharp or flat. It works quite well.

Tell your daughter to register and enjoy Tuba Christmas.

Hi Don!
I don't think it was that early in the NYC Tubachristmas history, but yes!! It was the President, a fine trumpet player. That's why Harvey would have felt badly about telling him not to play!

I will probably call the Richmond organizers and ask before I register her. I just want to make sure, she will get pretty embarrased if they tell her no on the day of.

One stupid question, since the Bass Clef part is in C I will have to transpose it up a step (since my horn is Bb). I guess I am confusing myself with the whole treble clef part is in Bb and the Bass clef part is in C difference. I have always just played the part that said "Tuba." I do not mean to offend the monks of Tuba, so I beg forgiveness if I have.

deholder wrote: ... since the Bass Clef part is in C I will have to transpose it up a step (since my horn is Bb). I guess I am confusing myself with the whole treble clef part is in Bb and the Bass clef part is in C difference. I have always just played the part that said "Tuba." I do not mean to offend the monks of Tuba, so I beg forgiveness if I have.

If you've always played the Tuba part, this is the same part -- "in C" just indicates that it's not transposed. No adjustment necessary.

ghmerrill wrote:I don't think the Tuba Christmas bureaucracy (if such there be) enforces rigid entrance requirements.

Last year's performance in New London, NH included a string bass. The director introduced it as a 'wooden tuba'.

wr4 wrote:Last year's performance in New London, NH included a string bass. The director introduced it as a 'wooden tuba'.

Ok, I think that's weird.

bort wrote:

wr4 wrote:Last year's performance in New London, NH included a string bass. The director introduced it as a 'wooden tuba'.

Ok, I think that's weird.

Seems a bit odd, but maybe they didn't have a real one available:

A real, by gosh, wooden tuba!! How about that. The awesomeness of that is nearly unparalleled.

Now to the the 'monks of tuba' I appreciate your assistance and patience. I thank you for your time. As I grow and progress I hope to someday contribute positively to the forum someday. My friend is from Moscow and he and I plan on taking a trip to Russia soon. Since I purchased a St. Pete 202N he and I have been researching the St. Pete's and Cerveny tuba history in Russia. We hope to arrange a tour of the shop but that is a long way off.

due to a improper shipping and needing to get the thing dipped and the rotors fixed, it is still at the repair shop. Once I have it back I will post a positive note on its reconstruction

David "a Tuba prodigal, returning"

Well, here's my thoughts on playing an alto horn in TubaChristmas.

Leave the peck horn at home. Beg, borrow, or buy her a real tenor or bass horn: A baritone, euph, tuba, serpent or what have you, and give her a fingering chart, the TC book, some help & and lots of encouragement! There are plenty around, and penciling in a few (or a lot) of fingerings in the book is OK.

2 big reasons:

1st: She will get experience in playing a different kind of instrument. No harm in that.
2nd, it will be a character building exercise in that she won't be encouraged to "bend the rules" and sneak in without a low brass instrument. There is far too much of that going on in all walks of life, and too many people have the attitude that "I am special, so I need to go the easy way".

OK. I'm insensitive and I know I will be labeled a "*&^%$#" but that is ok. If she were close by, I'd be glad to loan her a horn myself.

Good Luck!!!
Merry TubaChristmas!