Advice on switching to CC tuba

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TubaDanny43
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Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by TubaDanny43 »

Hi everyone,

I am a Junior this year in High School and playing to go to college to study music. So far I've made it to the ATSSB All- State Band twice and have earned a division 1 twice at the All- State Solo and Ensemble completion. I have been told by numerous professors that a CC tuba is used at college level. My main question is, is switching to a CC tuba necessary if I want to pursue a carrier in tuba playing? I would like to Major in Music Education and Minor in Tuba Performance. Another thing is, would switching to a CC tuba hurt me in the process of trying to earn my 4 year All- State scholarship? Thank you all in advance for your input.

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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by burningchrome »

I switched to CC when I went to get bachelor's. Then I joined the Army and had to have a whole bunch of tunes memorized for sousaphone, so I had to switch back to BBb.
The only people who should consider switching to CC are people going for performance and plan on being the 1 out of 10,000 who get a full time orchestra job.
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by k001k47 »

FWIW, I think you should audition for scholarships on BBb and worry about switching afterwards. Getting acustomed to a different set of fingerings can turn your brain tomush and inhibit your playing a bit. Good luck, and the search function is your friend! (using google to search tubenet and the old tubenet may yield better results)
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by Ace »

To original poster: Please read and re-read Kiltie's post above. It covers the subject very well and offers solid advice.
From the description of your situation, it's probably best to stick with BBb.
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by sweaty »

I disagree. Speaking as a school band director, being able to play with kids on various instruments takes much transposing skill. The skill of able to play both BBb and CC transfers to being able to read the music of any instrument and play it on any other instrument. You can get a new Mack 410, a very good horn, for $1800. That is not much considering the cost of college; it'll last a long time and you can sell it when it no longer suits your purposes.

Similar to learning languages, the earlier the better. Young minds are quick and flexible. The brain fossilizes as it ages and this even happens at puberty. I got a Mack 410 for my son when he was 11. On a previous thread, I had posted a link to him playing the Gregson on it. He plays the CC at home and the school's BBb at band rehearsal. I believe the time to learn CC is when the player knows scales well and has a good ear. Yes, you can make good music on a BBb, but why not learn more?
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by bort »

I say go for it and make the switch.

Frankly, I think it makes life a lot easier in the long run. To me playing BBb instead of CC is like counting starting with -1 instead of 0. Its not "wrong," but not terribly natural either.

And whether its right or wrong, showing up with a CC tuba makes you look more serious, and comes with the benefit of never being asked about or having to explain your BBb tuba. Its silly, but its what I've noticed.
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by Ken Herrick »

Learn the music AND learn how to transpose it.

THEN you can play it and teach it.

EXCERSISE that matter which resides between your ears!

As Jake, Harvey, and Bill told me decades ago - "Make music!"

When you learn that you can go play and/or teach.

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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by bort »

He's not going for a performance degree, so I fail to see how any of your responses are helpful. His focus should be on learning the primary school instruments so he can pick up a flute or clarinet and play it, or mash the tune out on the piano. Picking up lessons on piano and maybe buy a couple of "student" horns is far more preferable to laying down serious cash on a CC tuba (because what college professor isn't going to scoff at a Chinese-clone).[/quote]

I disagree -- I think the best teachers are people who are experts and highly proficient at their primary instrument. I'm not saying that a BBb tuba limits this in any way, but I think that learning all of the instruments is equally as important as learning his primary instrument. The best music teachers and conductors I've played for had one thing in common -- complete command and proficiency on their primary instrument. That is, I've always heard music education degrees described as being almost a double major in music and in education, and that the performance requirements of the ed degree are only slightly less than the performance degree.

Beyond this... holy crap, it's 2014 and we're still arguing BBb vs. CC. :lol:
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by smitwill1 »

To the OP: How do you feel about switching? Is it something you're interested in doing? Do you look forward to the challenge of learning a new set of fingerings (albeit, just the same old ones offset a whole step...) and perhaps pitch tendencies? If so, now is a good time (if you can get the horn). Maybe the experience will inspire you to practice a little more, which never hurts. After all, working with a teacher and teaching yourself something new in the area of music is good practical experience for your future career teaching music. I agree with Bort, the tuba is just a tool for learning music and learning how to teach, given your plans for MuEd.
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by Z-Tuba Dude »

...holy crap, it's 2014 and we're still arguing BBb vs. CC.
Just wait until 2016! :lol:

I think that a good teacher has to master his/her major instrument, and be very good on the others (fortunately, much of that can be learned "on the job").

BBb vs. CC vs. Teaching - The whole BBb fingerings are better for public school teaching is a false agument. It is irrelevant what fingers you put down, when teaching your tuba lessons (it's really more important what fingers THEY put down, isn't it?). Since in reality most of your time will be spent teaching flutes, clarinets, saxophones, trumpets, and drums, I am pretty sure that they don't care what tuba fingerings you use!

At one time moving up to a CC tuba, meant a step up in quality, as well as pitch. It is still true to a degree, but there are now many more quality BBbs available, than there were 30 years ago. Be aware that there are still people who hold to that predjudice about serious players only playing on CC tubas, who formed that opinion 30 yeasrs ago. In the end, you can change their minds about BBb, if you are up to the challenge.

Pick the horn that helps you make the best sound YOU can produce, regardless of the key.

You can always wait until the summer after high school, if you want to make the switch to CC.
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by TubaDanny43 »

Thank you all very much for ya'lls input. Although, I should probably add that I'm still pretty unsure as to if I want to major in Education or Performace. I have been told numerous times that education is the better route but I just really don't want go down the route of eduction. I do understand what will be at stake if I choose to go with performance. Also, I have spoken to a couple proffesors, even with one of the college that I would really like to go to. They have told me that a CC is common at a college level. Sorry if I brought a very basic/common question.
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by opus37 »

Since you have reservations about education and performance is rather difficult to find continuous employment, have you considered a different major along with a music minor? If you were to survey the members of this board, you would find a very large number of other professions that make good money but allow you to live comfortably and pursue your tuba aspirations. I'm suggesting you think out of the music box a bit. You may find some combination that fits you perfectly. Consider a trip to your schools guidance councilor, that person may be able to help you with other suggestions for your life career(s).
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by The Big Ben »

Not sure how relevant my opinion is to this discussion but that has never stopped me from saying anything.

1. If you really don't want to get into music education, don't do it. It is hard work and much of that work is unpaid. No matter what level you are working at, there will be many things you are asked to do and things you are expected to do that will not be in your regular work day. Performances, contests, fund raisers are all partially on your own time. Kids can drive you nuts. I know. I've been a high school teacher for 32 years. Kids can drive me nuts. Teaching kids and watching them grow and then go out and make something of themselves has been very rewarding.

2. Personally, I think if you have an excellent tuba in BBb or CC and can play it like a bandit, you will do fine. Punching the correct buttons on the instrument is a very small part of playing the tuba. Rejecting a candidate for not having a CC instrument is probably part of a winnowing process to get the numbers to a manageable level.

3. You can kind of forget about getting one of those symphony jobs that will pay enough to support you and, if you choose, a family and have some kind of desirable lifestyle. In my extended family, there are two orchestra musicians. I am not quite sure with whom they are playing presently but it is in the Bay Area. He plays the harp, she plays the violin. They are in their early 60s and have been professionals since the middle 70s and they play frequently. Lucky for them the "computer revolution" in business happened on their watch and they developed those skills after they became professional musicians. Both have worked in Corporate America with their computer skills and that is how they have made their living. I made the comment to the violin player, "It must be easier to get a playing job as a string player than as a tubist. Orchestras generally have one tuba and there are five or six rows of string players". She chuckled at me as if to say, "You foolish boy", and said how many more string players were being trained as opposed to the number of positions. I don't remember the exact numbers but the gist of it was that conservatories and colleges are putting out hundreds of violin players each year who have no hope of getting a living wage playing position.

If you really want to be a teacher, do it. I can't imagine anything else that I would rather do. But you really have to want it.

If you want to set the goal for yourself of getting a degree in tuba performance and meet the standards of an excellent institution of learning and earn that BA, MA or PhD, do it. Don't fool yourself in thinking that you are guaranteed making a living doing it. College is not a trade school. You do not go in, take your classes, get your grades, get a diploma and then get a job and settle in for the long haul. I don't think that is how it works in America in any field any more. Especially in the liberal arts and stuff like philosophy. But you can play your horn, find another discipline that you like a lot and has the potential to provide you with income and go from there. You can be an engineer or computer worker and have your quintet or quartet on the side or play in an orchestra that pays little but offers an opportunity to perform.

There are many ways that a high level of accomplishment on the tuba can enrich the rest of your life. If you want that, you can have it but you are going to have to figure out a way to make it work.
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by Uncle Buck »

There is no such thing as "switching" to CC tuba.

Many tuba players choose at some point to learn to play tubas in additional keys. In some circumstances that addition (not a "switch") brings valuable educational and performance benefits. Other times less so.

It is not switching instruments. It is adding a new skill set.
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by NCSUSousa »

+1 to the post from 'The Big Ben'. I think he's nailed it.
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by swillafew »

The way it was told to me, at one time CC tubas were only made as top of the line horns, and insisting that a student have one was to insist on the student having the best. Today a CC tuba is not always a top of the line horn, but the perceived need for one is very prevalent.
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by royjohn »

Danny,

I thnk you've gotten some good advice here, you'll just have to decide whose posts contain it. I agree with those who are telling you NOT to teach if you don't enjoy it. I also agree with those who think you need some other employment options if you take a performance degree. Possibly doubling on trombone and/or string bass would enlarge your performance opportunities after graduation. If you're going to major in performance, it would make sense to ask the tuba prof. you'll be studying with what to do about Bb vs CC. Probably they'll ask you to get a CC. Along with enlarging your musical skills as much as possible, it would be a good idea to have a second major in something very sale-able at which you could support yourself and a family.

I think a University degree is going to cost about $40K at an in-state State university, and as much as $120-$150K at a private institution. You may get some scholarship money, but it is rare to be completely funded, so you can plan on leaving school with at least $20K or so of debt unless your parents can foot the remaining bill. Unless you are a tuba genius (and you say instead that you are a very good player), the competition for a symphony job is going to be fierce. Also, if you have kept abreast of developments, many major symphonies in this country are in sad shape and facing lowered salaries and shorter seasons. It is not a great job outlook and you could be taking auditions for years while doing pick up work in the local polka band, waiting tables, etc. Even if it took you an extra semester or two, it would make sense to maximize the benefit you get out of your education dollars by taking another major. If you have no interest in computers or engineering or other high job demand areas, you might consider other areas in the performing arts, such as arts management or recording engineering, etc. I just would not leave school with a degree that qualified me principally to work as a tuba player in a symphony orchestra.

Good luck in your quest! :D
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by sloan »

Kiltie had it right - don't buy a CC tuba, buy a piano!
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by sloan »

sloan wrote:Kiltie had it right - don't buy a CC tuba, buy a piano!
But make sure it's a CC piano...
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Re: Advice on switching to CC tuba

Post by Lee Stofer »

I think the secret is to play so well that people don't know or care what key horn you're using. If you want to play that well, find a teacher that you want to work with, who wants to work with you. In that sort of situation, you'll likely progress a lot, and the instrument will not likely be an issue.

As for the key of the instrument, I'll say this - I've played very nice instruments in BBb, CC, Eb and F. It is the current fashion to belittle BBb tubas and oftentimes their players, but this is short-sighted and many times based on limited experience. A first-line, professional-quality BBb tuba can soundly trump all but the best of CC tubas. And, it is an acoustical fact that BBb tubas are easier to play in-tune. No one tuba is the best one for every circumstance, but a good BBb tuba can cover the bases well at a significantly lower cost than a comparable CC tuba. In recent times, I have noticed that people do not notice whether I''m playing a BBb, CC, Eb or F tuba, but they do notice how well I'm playing. How well you play at any given point is the most important thing.
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