Question about impact of esthetics

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rascaljim
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Question about impact of esthetics

Post by rascaljim »

I am finally going to purchase a large tuba. The tuba I am looking at is sold very commonly in both silver and brass. I realise that there is a slight difference in timbre and a few other things... but I was wondering what you all think about how a horn looks as to value as a personal tool.
I guess I'm asking that if money weren't a factor in the choice and the two types of horn sound similar enough would you lean toward silver or brass (for use in orchestra playing). I realize that there are a lot of other angles involved with selecting a tuba and that this is only one aspect, but it is a question I find myself asking. Thanks for the input
Jim
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Post by Tom »

If money were no object, I'd pick whatever horn made me sound the best...be it lacquer, silver, or bare brass.

Right now I have a silver CC, a lacquer CC (a 5/4 Rudy that's For Sale actually), and I sold a lacquered F, and just purchased a bare brass F. Finish was not really a factor in the purchase of any of them. I purchased all of them because they played well, and got whatever finish the horn happened to be in.

I've never purchased a tuba new, but if I did, I'd likely go for lacquer because I haven't had a good experience with the silver CC I have. I plays amazing, but the finsh is horrible.
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Bove
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Post by Bove »

Has anyone actually played an unfinished brass tuba, and then without any other modifications (rebuild, cleaning, etc.) had the instrument plated or lacquered? It would be interesting to hear their comments on the difference in sound quality, if any.
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Post by Chuck(G) »

Bove wrote:Has anyone actually played an unfinished brass tuba, and then without any other modifications (rebuild, cleaning, etc.) had the instrument plated or lacquered? It would be interesting to hear their comments on the difference in sound quality, if any.
I don't think it's possible to do that. There's a lot of prep work that goes into getting a horn ready to plate and cleaning up after plating. It could always be argued that this work made the difference in tone.
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Post by Leland »

If that's the case (the prep work makes a difference itself), then has anyone bothered to have a horn prepped, lived with it for a few weeks as-is, then gotten it lacquered or silverplated later, and made a comparison that way?
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Post by Bove »

I wish there were more facts as to how the finish of a tuba relates to its sound and playing characteristics. Most of the info I have heard on this subject is based on comparisons between like models of tuba with different finishes... and this kind of evaluation can be pretty shaky- since even identical tubas with the SAME finish often play noticeably different.
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Post by Rick Denney »

Bove wrote:I wish there were more facts as to how the finish of a tuba relates to its sound and playing characteristics. Most of the info I have heard on this subject is based on comparisons between like models of tuba with different finishes... and this kind of evaluation can be pretty shaky- since even identical tubas with the SAME finish often play noticeably different.
It depends on what you mean by facts.

We know that cellulose lacquer is thin and hard to the point of being brittle. We know that silver is extremely thin (on the order of molecules) and not all that different in hardness and stiffness from brass. We know that an extremely large percentage of the sound of a tuba comes from the vibration of the air within it, not from the vibration of the brass. We also know that tuba sound has audible overtones that extend up to perhaps the 16th partial. These are facts.

We can guess that the vibration of the brass does subtly affect the upper harmonics of the sound, and that this can possibly affect the coloration of the sound we hear. We can guess that this effect must be tiny compared to resonance of the air within the instrument. We can also guess that the finish can, at best, subtly affect the vibration of the brass. These guesses don't require much leap of faith.

What we don't know is if some people can really hear a very subtle shading of what is already a subtle effect on the sound, or if they are just imagining it. I know that answer for myself (I can't hear it). But I can only speak for myself.

I don't know of anyone who overhauled their tuba, sent it off to Anderson to be silver-plated, and then complained that the resulting sound was ruined. I do know people (whose opinion I respect) who insist that removing the lacquer from their tuba made a positivie difference. I don't know very many people who had otherwise nice lacquer removed, though I know many (including myself) who had it removed to avoid the cost of having it replaced after a repair.

Rick "who has never heard of anyone having the silverplate removed" Denney
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Post by Bove »

Rick, thanks for the facts...
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