hacksaws & Rudolf Meinl 5/4 CC tubas

[tylerferris1213]

Great job! I can't wait to get an apprenticeship so I can do my own modifications.

[joh_tuba]

You only know if you try... The real risk in this scenario was having to buy a new pipe.

Congratulations and encouragement are certainly in order. What you did makes a lot of sense, and I'm sure provided some insights you couldn't have achieved otherwise. It's interesting that 'less of an air hog' and 'better intonation' didn't unequivocally equal 'better tuba'. I would have predicted only improvements. I wonder if replacing the entire pipe OR a different progression in the new pipe would make for more clear cut improvement?

I think if you stare at most any tuba long enough you can find things that seem arbitrary or odd in the design. I'm certain there is some scientific method to the way RM develops their designs but the reality is probably much more akin to an odd mixture of tradition and experimentation similar to what Bloke has done. I do think there is a certain 'liberation' that takes place when you are experimenting on your own horn vs 'having a go' at a customer horn. It's a different mindset and expectation.

Until paying customers start lending out horns to creative repairmen with a blank check and encouragement to do whatever they want, we are probably beholden to folks like Bloke, Matt Walters, etc and manufacturers to keep moving the ball forward.

Moral of the story, loan Bloke your tuba and your wallet for six months and let him loose. It's for everyone's benefit. ;p

[jonesbrass]

Cool! Yes, the 5/4 is an "air hog," but the 6/4 is "sucking out my will to live."

[iiipopes]

What everyone is talking about is Bernoulli's principal. With a quick expansion from the mouthpiece throat to the larger leadpipe, the velocity will slow quicker than a narrower leadpipe, giving the feeling of taking more air, kind of like a delta dumping silt as the river widens and loses velocity as it enters the larger body of water.

Yes, it is Wiki, but it has the proper equations to show what is going on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli's_principle" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

The "training" is that the tuba really doesn't take more air. What is required is the efficiency of the person not relying on any back pressure from the mouthpiece throat or instrument leadpipe to control breath and buzz the embouchure. Just like a delta, velocity drops to basically zero as the leadpipe expands, and sets up the transition from flow, or fluid dynamics, to static waves, with the nodes and antinodes that, in regular succession, we call pitch.

Personally, I need the back pressure to help my breath support. So I have the older 186 variant that has the smaller leadpipe like bloke has demonstrated he made for his Rudy, and @ .325in, or 8.25mm mouthpiece throat diameter and moderate expansion backbore, to play efficiently.

Or, to put it in the terms of above: my lungs are only a 327, not a 454, so I need a Holley or Edelbrock 550 to 650 cfm carburetor, an Edelbrock performer manifold, and 1 5/8 inch exhaust to run smoothly across the rev range, instead of a 750 or larger or multiple carburetors into a high-rise manifold, with 1 3/4 inch headers, so mixture velocity is maintained and the fuel doesn't puddle out on the way from the carburetor to the cylinder.

[iiipopes]

I'm becoming more accustomed to the smaller 'pipe and am now getting more of the same type of sound out of it that I get out of the big 'pipe.

Excellent!

[oedipoes]

I remember having read somewhere on this forum that a smaller leadpipe is some kind of a 'factory option' on Rudy tubas ...
Not sure ...

Wim

[tofu]

Can you compare the Rudy vs your Holton 345? I've never seen/played a Rudy 5/4, but I've always heard they are more size wise like most other manufacturers 6/4 size tubas. A side by side photo would be interesting as well.

[iiipopes]

This bloke-made smaller mouthpipe (which also doesn't allow me to spin the amount of air through this R-M - air that the R-M just eats up like rocket fuel) also (probably) is cutting about 3% - 5% off the top-end "loudness" potential of this instrument.

I think you will find that you need that 3% to 5% in dynamic range only about 3% to 5% of your playing in general. So the added flexibility the mouthpipe is giving to the 95% to 97% of your playing seems to me to be more than worth it.

I had a similar experience a few years ago with Miraphone leadpipes. My @1971 186 has a small bore, tapered leadpipe, and since going to the 17 3/4 inch bell the newer 186's have a mouthpipe with a larger diameter at the receiver. After playing both, I came to the same conclusion bloke has on his RM: well worth giving up that last couple of points in ceiling volume in order to gain some air conservation and make the rest of the dynamic range much more musical.

Congrats on making a great horn fit your playing.

[Tuba-G Bass]

Hi Joe,
Is the 5/4 Rudy CC in question the one with the newer computer designed leadpipe?
I have a BBb 5/4 Rudy, and it's the most air efficient Tuba I have ever played, also the easiest to play soft.
It does have the older style leadpipe, that has the "swoop" circuit typical of older European rotor BARTs
I am not sure of the age, other than is says "Made in Germany" so it's after reunification.

My Rudy and CBT.jpg

and this is what the newer leadpipe is like on the current 5/4 BBb Bayreuth Rudy

5-4_B-Tuba_Modell_Bayreuth_4_Zylinder_Ventile_Trigger_am_2_Zug.jpg

The Miraphone Contrabass Trombone, that is the Air Hog...

[iiipopes]

Actually, I had our secretary, Miss Crane, design my RM 5/4 mouthpipe here in the United States - on our own computer, the Flofax 5000®.

Sorry, I just gotta do it: bloke, have you considered introducing Flo to Hal?

[Sam Gnagey]

When I was using my 5/4 Rudy I found that the Marcienkowiez N-series mouthpieces were advantageous in making the horn more air-efficient. They have a pretty narrow throat opening and brightened up the sound with more projection within the orchestra.

[pjv]

Hmm,
This also opens the possibility to change the mouthpipe angle without having to fabricate an entire new mouthpipe.