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Ok heres the deal: i play trombone on a good level and am doubling on tuba since some weeks. I have an old besson eb 3valver.

In the ensembles i play in (wind and brass bands) this doesnt seem to be horn enough. Im always in the low range and some low notes are missing without the 4th valve.

So, do you think a bb would be a better choice or would you prefer the eb 4 valver. Keep in mind im the only tuba.

Im considering the wessex bb luzern or the wessex eb champion.

Thanks for your help!

First, welcome to TubeNet.
If you and your director think you need a bigger sound, then your question is: what tuba will produce a pleasing yet bigger sound? For that answer, you will need to try another horn. Buying by mail will not answer that, you have to play the horn before deciding on one. If you have access to those 2 models, by all means try them. You would also be well served to try as many as you possibly can before deciding. And, remember that a good, well-respected used horn will usually hold it's value much better than a new, less-respected one.
good luck!

Get yourself a solid BBb and be done with it.

scottw wrote:If you and your director think you need a bigger sound, then your question is: what tuba will produce a pleasing yet bigger sound? For that answer, you will need to try another horn. Buying by mail will not answer that, you have to play the horn before deciding on one. If you have access to those 2 models, by all means try them. You would also be well served to try as many as you possibly can before deciding.

Scottw is spot on. It sounds like you need more bottom range, not necessarily a bigger sound, but in either case, you want a horn that blends well. Definitely consult your director first and then go try some horns. Don't buy something sight-unseen. If you have a good music/repair shop in your area, they might have some good used horns that you could play. That's what I did - I went and played all the horns I was looking at before purchasing. Don't wed yourself to a specific model - go try as many horns as you can that fit your budget.

On the EEb versus BBb question, it really depends. I mostly play a three-valve Conn EEb helicon for my tuba gigs, but I have a Miraphone 186 BBb for those times where I need a bigger voice and/or more bottom range. Personally I think that for a single horn, you're probably better off with a BBb. However, I am also mainly a trombonist/euphoniumist who dabbles with tuba, so I would defer to the board members who are full-time tubists. In any event, welcome to TubeNet and good luck!

Since you're already on Eb, I vote for the champion.

This isnt about bigger sound or not. What i really need is more bottom range. Is a Bb better for that? I suppose, but i dont really know...

What i like about the eb is the size. Are there any small bb? What are the time proofed models?

How big is the wessex luzern compared to a normal bb?

Changing to bb shouldnt be a problem.

cozzagiorgi wrote:This isnt about bigger sound or not. What i really need is more bottom range. Is a Bb better for that? I suppose, but i dont really know...

What i like about the eb is the size. Are there any small bb? What are the time proofed models?

How big is the wessex luzern compared to a normal bb?

Changing to bb shouldnt be a problem.

well the main questions are
how low do you go or need to go?
and how many valves on a Bb do you really need?
i think a nice small 3/4 size tuba with 3 valve valves should work for you
maybe a yamaha 103 just practice going low
or you can go with the wessex mighty midget if you want four valves and it is more compact
the Luzern is described as 5/4 so ii imagine its way bigger than your Eb tuba

Ok, bear with me, I'm not sure if I got that right:

With an Eb 3 valver I can go down to A with all three valves pressed, is that right? (Of course i could play fake notes, but I'm not at that level on the tuba yet).

I find myself in situations where I need to go down to F or Eb frequently so I'd need at least a 4th valve on the Eb. But do those notes sound good with the 4th valve?

wity an Eb 3 bangeryou can get down to the A below. With a 4 ba ger even lower.

Eb vs BBb is more sound vs register

Lectron wrote:wity an Eb 3 bangeryou can get down to the A below. With a 4 ba ger even lower.

Well, yeah thats what I said, didn't I?

cozzagiorgi wrote:

Lectron wrote:wity an Eb 3 bangeryou can get down to the A below. With a 4 ba ger even lower.

Well, yeah thats what I said, didn't I?

I believe we are talking different octaves.

On a 4V(5V) Eb it's just as easy to play down to AAA (27Hz) as on a BBb
The BBb would sound better thou
The 3V Eb would need to make use of privileged tones from Bb down to EEb

Ok, got it.

I played already some concert on a 4valve eb tuba I rented. Some Besson Model. On this horn it was really hard to play the low notes with the 4th valve. Notes didn't speak well or at all. Is this the case on all 4 valvers or did I just have a bad one?

That was probably a so called compensated horn, and the combinations with he 4th valve tends to get stuffy
I 5V tuba (or 4V) non compensated would as a general rule play much more open but
doesn't have thee benefit as being true chromatic from BBb and down, IOW
One would have to think and use the (inner) ear and some slide pulling

I prefer the latter, but in some literature slide pulling is just not an option

tuben wrote:In the meantime, learn about false-tones.

Not a bad idea!

A good 3V can be had for a very reasonable price and some of the false notes speak
nearly just as good as some of the compensated ones
Takes practice thou, but that's the fun part, ain't

If you are the only tuba in the band, I would recommend going Bb, but in addition, you really need a horn of substantial size.

In my opinion, a 3/4 sized horn will leave you wanting for more sound, in the bigger sections of the music. You can always play softer on a big horn, but there is a limit to how loud you can get on a small horn (it sounds like you are experiencing that phenomenon with your current horn). In the end, it takes a decent sized horn to provide a foundation for a concert band (if it the only horn).

Well... Practice time gets eaten up by my alto, tenor, and bass trombone playing. So... false tones are not really an option.

I need a good sounding tuba, fully chromatic, and with good intonation. Not too big (can be a little bigger than an Eb), I actually don't really care about what key it is in. Eb and Bb are just what people are used to hereabout.

I actually don't think I need more sound. But good agility in the lower range.

My opinion -- get a BBb.

You could make an Eb work, but for a casual player and a doubler, I see little benefit to spending a lot of time and effort trying to make an Eb sound like a BBb. I say just get a BBb and be done with it. It's more fun to have easy access to a thundering low range, anyway.

Something the size of the Wessex Luzern ("4/4") is what you want. I've never played that specific tuba, so I can't say anything about it, but just about anything that size will be the most appropriate.

30 years old. Not a high school student. English is not my first language. In fact... its no. 4.

I get the feeling i need a bb tuba. What are some models i could look at?

Miraphone 186 & King 2341/1241 are both workhorses, and often available used.

cozzagiorgi wrote:30 years old. Not a high school student. English is not my first language. In fact... its no. 4.

I get the feeling i need a bb tuba. What are some models i could look at?

General advice: Play anything you can find used. Don't settle. You already have a good Eb tuba so you can wait for a good used Bb to become available.

About models/brands:
The Germans have been building some of the best BBb tubas for years. Miraphone, B&S, Melton, Rudy Meinl and Alexander are current top brands from Germany. If you can find something used from them in your price range, give it a try. Most traditional german designs are 38"-42" tall (1000mm) so they're a little larger than your Eb tuba. They do have some models that aren't as tall - Miraphone 191, Melton 18 to name a couple.
Hirsbrunner in Switzerland is also very good, but may be out of your price range even used.

Cerveny/Amati is in the Czech Republic and sells new horns for less than their German competitors. St Petersburg (Russian made) is also competing in that price range here in the US. I don't know how their prices are near you. Their horns are typically made of brass that is not as thick/heavy as the german made instruments, so they dent easier. That shouldn't be an issue for you as an adult player. They're very good instruments, just not for teenagers. They also make some instruments that aren't quite as tall if you're still looking for something in a more manageable size.