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Mendelssohn's Symphony No. 5
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:05 pm
by Mark
My copy of Daniels says that there is a tuba (ophicleide?) part for Mendelssohn's Symphony No. 5. But, the Cherry CD only has trombone parts. Is there a tuba part?
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:36 pm
by tubaman5150
There is no actual tuba part. There is a serpent/contrabassoon part found on the same page.
Performance practice on this piece varies. Some conductors ignore the serpent altogether.
Some give the part to the tuba with or without an amount of editing by the conductor.
Look for the contrabasson part and you find it.
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:13 pm
by vmi5198
To all you uninformed 1st year students out there - if it says Ophicleide, Serpent, etc. it means TUBA. Even if you DID have one of these instruments, in more cases than not the conductor in a modern orchestra would prefer the modern counterpart instead of the original.
I have even been told to perform Contrabassoon parts instead of the contrabassoon itself! Example: Dvorak Serenade.
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:49 pm
by tubaman5150
vmi5198 wrote:To all you uninformed 1st year students out there - if it says Ophicleide, Serpent, etc. it means TUBA. Even if you DID have one of these instruments, in more cases than not the conductor in a modern orchestra would prefer the modern counterpart instead of the original.
I have even been told to perform Contrabassoon parts instead of the contrabassoon itself! Example: Dvorak Serenade.
I must disagree with you. While it is sometimes performance practice for serpent and ophicleide parts to be performed on tuba, it is not always appropriate. Berlioz specifically re-scored his ophicleide parts for tuba, but that doesn't mean other composers wanted that type of sound. In the piece in question, the serpent is used as a member of the woodwind section and
was not a regular member of the orchestra. If it was used as a member of the brass section, then I would agree with you.
Music for the serpent goes back as early as the Baroque Era. Would you play that on tuba?
Also, if you were playing contrabassoon parts, its most likely because there were none to cover the part. Contrabassoons
are regular members of the orchestra.
In any case, I would consult the conductor
first before I assume the serpent/ophicleide is meant for me. Only a "uninformed 1st year student" would make the mistake of assuming such.
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:48 am
by vmi5198
Contrabassoons are regular members of the orchestra.
In any case, I would consult the conductor first before I assume the serpent/ophicleide is meant for me. Only a "uninformed 1st year student" would make the mistake of assuming such.
Thanks for the orchestration lesson. People really try to sound intelligent by always saying, "well that is not
always the case. tssk tssk...
OK... to rephrase my previous statement... I realize that this is not ***
always*** the case, but it has been a common practice to use tuba. Lets get real here. This subject could continue forever if we were sitting in a lecture hall - I am just saying what is common practice for a local orchestra... NOT some commemoration of Mendelssohn's death... OR his birth... OR his...
Enough with the nit picking. Let people think for themselves.
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:27 am
by Dean E
vmi5198 wrote: f it says Ophicleide, Serpent, etc. it means TUBA. . . .
Same for bombardon, which is seen in German band parts.
See: BOMBARDONat LoveToKnow
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:46 pm
by tubaman5150
Thanks for the orchestration lesson. People really try to sound intelligent by always saying, "well that is not always the case. tssk tssk...
You are welcome. People really try to sound intelligent by always making strong, unilateral statements and assuming those that disagree are "uninformed". tssk tssk...
OK... to rephrase my previous statement... I realize that this is not ***always*** the case, but it has been a common practice to use tuba. Lets get real here. This subject could continue forever if we were sitting in a lecture hall - I am just saying what is common practice for a local orchestra... NOT some commemoration of Mendelssohn's death... OR his birth... OR his...
Ok. I will agree that it is common practice, but it is mostly a few Romantic Era pieces that call for those instruments. And even then, the tuba can be an akward fit. The conductor makes that call based upon what he knows of the piece and the score in front of him. It would not be based upon "some commemoration of Mendelssohn's death... OR his birth... OR his..."
Let people think for themselves.
versus
To all you uninformed 1st year students out there - if it says Ophicleide, Serpent, etc. it means TUBA.
What you call "nitpicking", most would call performance practice. I'm not saying one should go out and find a serpent to play. Your reasoning on that is
very valid. I'm saying the decision to play those parts should be well thought out, with regards to the composers original intentions, and approved by the conductor.
One more thing before I'm done with this thread and it degenerates into another "No, YOU'RE stupid" debate:
I responded in kind to your post because you used some pretty strong words and referred to anyone who didn't know that as "uninformed 1st year students". To be honest, I don't wish to fight with you and I do respect your opinion. Seriously, even if I disgree. Please do the same for others on this board.