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Jonathantuba wrote:Having recently got my rotary valve PT-6, I am interested in how often existing rotor users dismantle and clean out the valves to keep them in good working order.

If you keep the instrument clean, you almost never have to remove the rotors. Just squirt oil down the leadpipe once in a while to keep them coated, and oil the bearings with light machine oil, which can be done without disassembly.

I just did it to the valves on my Miraphone, after at least ten years of sometimes-heavy use. I have flushed the instrument during that time on occasion, and have oiled the bearings frequently. Probably the only reason I needed to take them apart this time was that the oil I used on the rotors had thickened too much and I needed to clean it off with a solvent and start over.

I once owned a VMI stencil that needed disassembly more often. The new valves would attract deposits far more than my Miraphone ever has, but I think it was because I didn't dump oil down it like I should have. I had to take those valves apart four times in two years, but I told its new owner to dump oil in the leadpipe before every use and as far as I know it has not required disassembly since that time (about 8 years ago).

Rick "thinking rotary valves were not made to be disassembled too often" Denney

On french horn the advice is to never, ever dismantle your valves by yourself. Too much can go wrong unless you know exactly what you're doing, and even then you can end up with completely stuck valves or just lousy running ones.
If you oil regularly and don't blow too much cr*p in your horn, (i.e. brush your teeth before playing) dismantling shouldn't be necessary apart from a occasional overhaul every (few) year(s) by a competent repairperson.

Rick Denney wrote:

Jonathantuba wrote:Having recently got my rotary valve PT-6, I am interested in how often existing rotor users dismantle and clean out the valves to keep them in good working order.

If you keep the instrument clean, you almost never have to remove the rotors. Just squirt oil down the leadpipe once in a while to keep them coated, and oil the bearings with light machine oil, which can be done without disassembly.

Rick knows what he is doing with HIS horns, but the key words here are "if you keep the instrument clean"! If I have a horn of unknown condition, dumping oil down the leadpipe is the last thing I would do.... at least until I have properly cleaned and serviced the instrument. Taking rotors apart and reassembling them properly is not that difficult (not even on a French horn!)... however, have a reliable repairman coach you through it at least the first time.

I completely clean my horns(PT15, PT3, PT6 and MW2165- yes I know I have too many) every six months. Never have trouble taking them apart and putting them together. People make too much of it being difficult or dangerous. In ten years I've had one piddly broken screw that a repairman tapped out lickity split no problem(be carefull how much you tighten your screws and this is not a real danger). In the span of six months a lot of crap can build up in a horn. My horns tend to play a little different after a cleaning. The rotors of my PT6(Which I've owned since new) are still nice and shiny and corrosion free.

When I first got my PT6 the inside of the horn had a very heavy black grease left inside it from the manufacturing process. It took several cleanings to get rid of it. In the mean time it made the valves a bit sluggish.

Many people get away with never properly cleaning their rotors for years and years but you also hear many people claim that pistons are faster. I can't help but feel that there is a direct connection. If more people knew how to clean and maintain their rotors I strongly suspect that the piston vs. rotor debates would disappear.

My opinion fwiw

joh_tuba wrote:If more people knew how to clean and maintain their rotors I strongly suspect that the piston vs. rotor debates would disappear.
My opinion fwiw

Sure they would... right along with the 'lacquer vs silver vs raw brass' and the 'best mouthpiece' discussions!

I answered annually, which is about how often I take my tubas to Oberloh's shop get get the valves tuned.

What really bothers me is how many people answered when the valves stop working. What if they stop working in the middle of a performance?

TubaTinker wrote:.... Taking rotors apart and reassembling them properly is not that difficult (not even on a French horn!)... however, have a reliable repairman coach you through it at least the first time.

I agree it's not difficult, I've done it plenty of times with my old (cheap) horns. If you're not careful several things can go wrong, although mostly nothing a short visit to the repairshop can't cure.
But, at least on the more expensive German made french horns, tolerances on the valves are so tight that doing this at home will most likely (allmost certainly) result in worse working valves. Better to be safe and practice some instrumental hygiene and visit your trusted repairperson every so often.

Mark wrote:I answered annually, which is about how often I take my tubas to Oberloh's shop get get the valves tuned.

What really bothers me is how many people answered when the valves stop working. What if they stop working in the middle of a performance?

Mine always give me a lot of warning. They'll start to get a little sluggish, and that's when I do something, not when they freeze up.

I've never had a rotary valve fail to move at a gig of any sort, but I have had that happen severa times with pistons. I'm much more meticulous about cleaning and oiling pistons as a result.

Rick "who thinks rotaries are much more forgiving than pistons" Denney

I bought my PT6 used. The valves were well "worn in." Therefore I do the full removal/cleaning annually. I could probably go longer, but that would be gross.

On my new MW F tuba, I have had to monkey with the valves several times to clean them out and re-lube the bearing. I think it is finally clean enough and broken in enough to need servicing an an annual basis.

Speaking of rotary valves...The best valves I have ever worked on were on a Meister Hans Hoyer Double Horn - aboslutely flawless. Should have bargained for that horn in the divorce settlement of 1995 Hope she still plays it.

Other than those, Rudy Meinl valves have always been nice to deal with.

DLH

ok I haven't read all the posts on this because I just don't have that kinda time, but here's been my experience. I've had rotary tubas for the last 10 years. I find that as long as your tuba is well made and has good rotors you can actually get away with not really working on them much. If you get your horn cleaned annually you'll be fine. What I've experienced is that the oil that you put on the valves will only last for a couple weeks. After that the rotors will still work, but the may be just a little slower. For me, I mainly oil my rotor horns prior to recitals and auditions. Rotors are self encased so I've found that they really don't get as dirty as pistons can.
Hope some of this helps
Jim