Liberty Mo wrote:If players wanted to own the CSO York, and presumably this fueled the demand for the copies and development of copies, then why didn't someone build the CSO York?
Apparently Nirschl did, as others have said. And Yamaha. Holton is probably closer than many think, at least in terms of manufacturing methods, because it's likely that Holton and York used the same tooling for many of the big branches during parts of their histories, at least.
But I want to make a point about the various big tubas patterned generally around the York instrument. The York instrument is not perfect, but it provides an effective balance of manageable issues and sound that fits a certain concept that many want. It is also extremely efficient by all reports, magnifying what the player provides.
One noted symphony player suggested that the York concept is one of taking what a player has and making the most of it, while the 2165 concept was one of taking everything Warren Deck could give it. These seem to be quite different objectives: The first, the classic "old man's tuba", and the second, the "powerhouse player's tuba".
I'm not exactly sure what it is about certain of the big tubas that makes them efficient in the Yorkish way compared to other big tubas that are not. Most of us don't even know what that is, except by description. It would seem that most any measureable dimension is very similar between all of them. Is it the details that make the difference? Perhaps.
But I do know the difference exists. My Holton, though it is a BBb, is modeled on the York. It lacks the quality of craftsmanship of either the York or any of its other copies, and it's lived a hard life, but it still has the flexible sound and extreme efficiency that fits the descriptions of the York concept. Believe me, if I can make a sound on it, it's efficient. I cannot make a good sound on a 2165, at least not on the occasions I've tried.
It doesn't require that one take 8-bar phrases and turn them into 4-bar phrases. Quite the opposite, in fact. It's still a big-bore tuba and it takes more air than something like a King 2341, but it gives a bigger result, too. It's quite efficient when you back off.
Another noted player suggested to me that some BAT's sing with any amount of air, and others suck you dry just to make a sound. Many of the Holtons I've played (and both of the 2165's) have been more to the latter than the former. But there are some that possess the magic. What is that magic? I'm not sure anyone really knows for sure, but when they experience it, they have an instrument unlikely to be on the market again any time soon.
The point is, many different players have found that effect on many different instruments. Mike Sanders found it on one of those early hand-made Yorkbrunners. Floyd Cooley found it with the Nirschl. Norm Pearson has found it with the Yamayork. Alan Baer found it with the Gronitz. Gene Pokorny exhibits it with the original York. These same players might not find it on the instruments used by others on the list.
So, part of what is elusive about the York concept is in the players themselves, and part of it is in the instruments.
I think people go into playing a big tuba because they have a reputation for being efficient, i.e. "old man's tuba", but they still have to fit their sound concept into what the tuba will produce. The best of the big tubas are flexible in that regard, peprhaps. But I still remember Mike telling me at one of my lessons (just a year or two after he got the Yorkbrunner) that it had taken him nearly a year to really undertand the Hirsbrunner. He said he could make his Alex do almost anything, but
he had to make it happen. In contrast, he told me his strategy with the Yorkbrunner was to
relax and let the horn to the work. That had required some time. I do know that the difference from out front was not subtle. With the Yorkbrunner, Mike had a presence and a sweetness in his sound that contrasted dramatically with the commanding, almost brooding sound he had with the Alexander. This difference was apparent to me from the first time he played it with the symphony. It's the main reason I wanted lessons from him.
Thus, I think the reason many of the replicas differ from the York is that people are comparing the definite example of the replica to
their idea of the York. The fact that some seem to have that efficiency and others don't seems to me less a matter of design than sample variation. There are Holtons that have it, as well as Yorkbrunners, Nirschls, Yamahas, and Gronitzes. And there are perhaps examples of some or all of those that don't.
Rick "long a student of big tubas, but never a master" Denney
