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Where does someone go to pick up all the tricks of the trade? Is there a special degree program or something similar, or do you just get a job with a shop and learn as you go?

Both of the options you mentioned in your question are valid ways of entering the trade. Red Wing repair school in Minnesota offers a good course of study. I am sure there are others. I have been out of the repair business for many years and I am not up on what is available today. I was trained by Bill Kendall, formerly of the Walter Lawson horn shop. I also got valuable advice from Mr. Lawson, himself. While in business. I trained all of my helpers in the trade.

Dan Oberlouh is looking for one or two apprentices. That would be a great experience and he is a nice guy to boot. Check out his website, he had an announcement of the positions there, Good luck, Phil

I second the suggestion of Dan Oberloh. He is a first-rate craftsman!

I am not a classically trained band instrument repairman so what do I know.

I've looked at the programs at all of the repair schools. Those schools are a good place to begin your career but what they teach will not make you an 'instant' repairman but will send you forth with just enough skill to make you highly dangerous to yourself and anything you touch.

If you decide to go to a repair school.... get some knowledge of metalworking, design, and materials first. A high mechanical aptitude will also help.

Once you are finished with repair school... prepare yourself for several years of 'grunt' work before getting experience with anything besides just changing parts.

Sounds like carpentry. You can learn a lot in school and books and then start a job and impress everyone....

As someone who has gone through a repair school and is now working as a repair tech, I can say that school will prepare you a bit. Prepare to spend a lot of time figuring things out. I've been repairing for 2 years now, and I love being able to send an instrument out in better (or at least "more working"...my shop will repair even some Chinese instruments, like '70s Larks, if the customer wants it) shape. Also, it is important to know if you can hack the sludge that lives in almost everyone's horn. The hours are long, the pay is short, the customers will expect a miracle a day, and you count on at least a few of them stiffing you. If you can deal with all that, then you're good to go.

hbcrandy wrote:Both of the options you mentioned in your question are valid ways of entering the trade. Red Wing repair school in Minnesota offers a good course of study. I am sure there are others. I have been out of the repair business for many years and I am not up on what is available today. I was trained by Bill Kendall, formerly of the Walter Lawson horn shop. I also got valuable advice from Mr. Lawson, himself. While in business. I trained all of my helpers in the trade.

I remember taking my trumpet to Bill Kendall when I was in 6th grade, the little house back behind the gas station. No real help here, just reminiscing.

TubaTinker wrote: If you decide to go to a repair school.... get some knowledge of metalworking, design, and materials first.

This is excellent advice, but I wonder how one can currently go about pursuing it -- aside from seeking other training and apprenticeship in these fields.

It used to be that you could get this kind of training to at least some degree in community colleges. But those opportunities have largely disappeared -- despite the crying need of industry in these areas and a lot of lip service given by various government sources to the importance of community college programs. Around here, for example, it's now virtually impossible to get courses in machining -- and several of the schools have sold all of their machine shop equipment (which often you can pick up for a song if you happen to know about it). For three years my son attempted to register for courses in machining, and every one was cancelled for "lack of registration", which was an outright lie. He managed only to take a single course (online) in blueprints. Finally, he ran an add on Craigslist offering to pay someone to teach him, and a guy came by his house, provided him with some initial lathe training, and didn't charge him.

The community colleges do continue to provide certification courses in welding and auto mechanics, but virtually all the other "manual labor" stuff seems to have disappeared.

If I had to learn about materials, I don't know where I'd go. The only courses appear to be in the engineering schools around here, and that's not exactly what you want, and it would take some time, and you probably couldn't get in the courses anyway. Same for metalworking. In terms of design, I guess you could take some design courses at a university, but who knows what those amount to? And again, you have the difficulty of getting "admitted" and then paying for that and fitting into that schedule. There are some "adult education" courses available, but these are generally in such areas as pottery, woodworking, wood turning, etc.

The "find some old guy who will teach you" approach may be what's left. And it's not bad. You just have to find that old guy.

ghmerrill wrote:..... The community colleges do continue to provide certification courses in welding and auto mechanics, but virtually all the other "manual labor" stuff seems to have disappeared.

If I had to learn about materials, I don't know where I'd go. ....

It's a shame but it seems that parents don't feel there is a need for kids to learn anything that smacks of manufacturing for fear they will end up on an assembly line somewhere. Even when I was in grade school in the 50's there were such classes as 'woodshop' and 'drafting'. Later... in the early 60's in high school it was still possible to be on an 'industrial lane' where the focus was on preparing kids who weren't college bound to at least get a few 'hand skills'. That's where I began to get my feet wet in industrial-related subjects like general math, machining, welding, brazing, and plain old fashioned shop mechanics.

Today... parents seem to think that all their kids need to earn a living is a college degree. How wrong they are! I know LOTS of folks with advanced business degrees who can't pour piss out of boot!

TubaTinker wrote: Even when I was in grade school in the 50's there were such classes as 'woodshop' and 'drafting'. Later... in the early 60's in high school it was still possible to be on an 'industrial lane' where the focus was on preparing kids who weren't college bound to at least get a few 'hand skills'.

Same for me; same time frame. While I went the science/math route (as I would guess you did), the 'industrial lane' was there. And we were required to take several courses to graduate (at least the boys were -- very few girls in those classes). Seventh grade required "general shop"; eighth required metal shop; and ninth required wood shop. By the time my kids were of that age, it had all disappeared in favor of vague and useless 'keyboarding' classes and other fluff. Like it's harmful to know how to design and build stuff -- it might lower your intelligence. You need to be taught how to use a mouse and push buttons on a keyboard. I confess I did take 'typing' (a business course) in summer school, and I took 'mechanical drawing' in summer school as well. My daughter (who ended up as a math teacher) took drafting in community college. But it's harder and harder to find this stuff.

There are things like this: http://techshop.ws/. However, the one in Raleigh closed this past year. The orientation is also (to me) a bit weird since it involves a lot of jargon about being a "maker", "makerspace", etc. Kind of culty. And relatively expensive. But maybe worth a look for those having no alternative.

bloke wrote:For schools that still offer metal shop/wood shop/welding/automotive/etc...

...rather than the most clever students being sent into those classes, guidance counselors seem to send the students who make the lowest scores on standardized tests into those types of classes...

...so those deemed the most clever go on to be taught how to do nothing-in-particular, and are dependent on those deemed to be the least clever to actually "do" things for them.

If the students considered the "most clever" were really so, then they would enroll in metal shop/wood shop/welding/automotive in addition to a full complement of nothing-in-particular courses, without the need to consult a guidance counselor.

My cleverness is debated, doubted, and disparaged, but I would claim to be speaking from experience on this narrow matter.

bloke wrote:As one matriculates through academia (rather than the scope becoming wider and wider) the scope becomes narrower and narrower.

Only if you let it.

Getting an advanced degree in something (even something specialized) doesn't preclude you from learning, working, achieving, etc. in something else.

Not being an instrument repairman of any sort, I can't speak to the analogy presented here: whether intense specialization in tuba repair would preclude you from similarly masterful saxophone repair. Given the outstanding repairmen I've met and those on this board, I would guess that with some combination of talent, interest, and work ethic, it's possible to be 'great' at a lot of things - including playing the tuba - while still being 'great' at repairing the tuba.

bloke wrote:Perhaps (??), those (in standardized testing) whose minds are judged to be the most "clever" are also judged to be the most "malleable"...which (maybe) is why they are encouraged to go on to kolij...

That is a damn good hypothesis. And, I'd bet, a true one.