Wisemann PT-6p Clones

[MackBrass]

I hope not. I would also like to hear about the PT 10 clones. Keep it going!!!

As one of the first to have the PT 10 clones (from Mack Brass at least), I can certainly say that if you want a quality 5v F tuba, you won't find another option that comes close for under 5k. I may have only logged 10 hours or so on the horn, but it's certainly been enough to gather a first impression.

Having played a handful of PT 10s, I feel this one is in the same ballpark as the best examples I've played. I would say that it's intonation is better than the majority of the PT10s I have played. The only note that is questionable is the low C, but for a rotary F, it's certainly acceptable. The response of the horn is very nice in the low register as well.

As far as build quality, it's not quite on the level of the established names, but there is nothing to complain about, especially for the price. The gold brass bell adds a nice warmth to the sound that I prefer in an F. Strong soldering, well aligned and machined slides, and rotors that work without a hitch. For a shade less than 3500, I don't see how anyone could find much to complain about with this horn. I'm very thankful that there are now quality options available for those that are on a tight budget wishing to buy an F.

There is a demo video of the PT10 being uploaded and should be available in a few hours for those interested in hearing one.

[Lingon]

...if they can build quality instruments, why not take the initiative to develop something brand new?...

That would of course be nice, but OTOH if they take one instrument that many likes but that is not perfect and make it better. Is that not worth anything? Maybe not R&D as such, maybe just out of luck that it became even better. I mean if you could find something that you liked but get an even nicer version, maybe also for some decreased amount of money?
Maybe a couple of years into the future we will see things happen. Remember Yamaha. They started with cheapo copying, refined and eventually made new designs, and now they are also price leaders on much stuff... $40,000...

[toobagrowl]

yes.

"Research" can indicate that "development" is unwarranted.

It can also indicate that instruments that - at least - "look like" instruments that were made three decades ago will still sell...I believe the Germans discovered this phenomenon before the Chinese discovered it.

Yes, but the big difference is that the Germans "copied" their own designs.
I have noticed you have flip-flopped on the whole Chinese tuba "thing" since you sell them on occasion

How is the resonance on these Wisemann PT-6P clones compared to the real B&S PT-6P tubas? The real PT-6 / PT-6P tubas have great sound color; are the Wisemann clones more "vanilla", resonance-wise?

[TubaZac2012]

My Willson which was on the For Sale board is not sold, because the buyer fell out. I'm about to post it back up for sale to buy Joe's Wiseman, it's really just that good. I personally like the sound they produce more than the original PT-6P. Intonation is so stellar. The only notes that need pulling for is the F in the staff, and the usual Db and Gb.

Overall it's a great instrument, not just for the money, but overall.

[toobagrowl]

If any horn has a resonance issues, I would contend that it has to do with the quality of time in the practice room. Some horns are a little easier to get that resonance you want but ultimately its up to the player to figure it out. My two cents anyway.

Some players produce more colorful sounds than other players.......just like how some tubas produce more colorful sounds than other tubas.

Casca "who has performed on a PT6, PT6P, HB2P, and 3/4 Rudy and found those horns to be the ones I had to work hardest on to get the resonance I like." Grossa

Interesting. I find those models of tubas to produce great resonance & color. Keep in mind I have not played those models in over 10+ years, so maybe things have changed (like bloke alluded to).

Casca "Who also enjoys the flavor of vanilla" Grossa

So that's why you own the 186 clone, and like the Wisemann PT-6P clone.......and like Yamaha tubas?

[bort]

My Willson which was on the For Sale board is not sold, because the buyer fell out. I'm about to post it back up for sale to buy Joe's Wiseman, it's really just that good. I personally like the sound they produce more than the original PT-6P. Intonation is so stellar. The only notes that need pulling for is the F in the staff, and the usual Db and Gb.

Overall it's a great instrument, not just for the money, but overall.

Curious, I thought you were selling the Willson to go for a different sound concept. Is the PT-6 (or similar) really significantly different from the Willson?

I know, it really doesn't matter, and you can sell the Willson for whatever reason you want, and no one has to care except for you. Just curious!

[TubaZac2012]

My Willson which was on the For Sale board is not sold, because the buyer fell out. I'm about to post it back up for sale to buy Joe's Wiseman, it's really just that good. I personally like the sound they produce more than the original PT-6P. Intonation is so stellar. The only notes that need pulling for is the F in the staff, and the usual Db and Gb.

Overall it's a great instrument, not just for the money, but overall.

Curious, I thought you were selling the Willson to go for a different sound concept. Is the PT-6 (or similar) really significantly different from the Willson?

I know, it really doesn't matter, and you can sell the Willson for whatever reason you want, and no one has to care except for you. Just curious!

You would think that, but after playing both the Willson, which is a great horn, side by side with the Wiseman, the color and character of sound was just different. The Willson is very dark, just about too dark for my ear, but for some people that's what they're looking for. I recently went to a brass conference, and two of the tuba players fell in love with the Willson, one was a Miraphone 186 player, and the other is a PT-6P player, but back to your question. Side by side the horns play very differently. They both truly have pros and cons, but I personally like the sound, overtones, and warmth that the Wiseman provides. So is the sound concept between the Willson and Wiseman different, I think so, but hey, that's just me.

I hope this answers your question.

[bbocaner]

I tried one of these and thought it played pretty well. I am a euphonium/trombone player who is interested in getting a good tuba for cross-training and doubling and for, well, for fun! The prospect of a nice instrument that can be had at half the price of the similar German marques (which happen to be owned by a French company whom I would NEVER buy anything from ever again) is appealing.

However, when I was auditioning the instrument I needed to oil the valves. And in trying to do that I noticed that the valve caps seemed really poorly threaded. They were extremely difficult to get off and back on again and did not feel smooth. As oiling valves is something you would do every single time you played it, this was kind of a turn-off to me! Is this typical for this model? Is this easily fixable? Does this point to poor workmanship overall which might be a problem in other areas? I have never had an issue like this with any other piston instrument. Thanks.

[bort]

Cool, Zac! Hope you get it soon!

[MikeMason]

Re:valve cap issues. Yup.have gotten manageable as I've worn them in,but yep,a problem

[bisontuba]

Joe-
Are the valve cap threads 'thin' instead of being a ''thicker/coarser' thread like Yamaha's ( and the American made pistons of past)?.....
What might be causing people problems is trying to start the closing of the cap and/ or 'jumping over' fine threaded metal ( if you get what I mean)....
Mark

[MikeMason]

I've been screwing on valve caps quite a while now.they were/are a problem.

[bort]

I've been screwing on valve caps quite a while now.they were/are a problem.

That seems like a pretty big issue to me. Fit and finish is one thing, but I would have a hard time living with this, no matter where it was made.

[Worth]

Valve caps that don't start easily suck.

I've experienced this same deal with my 900 and attribute it to a finer thread pitch (reason for which I am not sure) or possibly a less than defined "start point" which requires a more delicate touch. One specific cap was more problematic but has now broken in and is fine. Bloke can you please tell us what type of replacement valve washer is best for this application and a source for non-techs. Thanks!

[Worth]

Thanks very much Bloke for that info -- a huge help