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I didn't realize when I resurrected an old post that the title had been deleted. So I'll start a new one.

I spent a couple of glorious hours last night playing next to an Alex. It has been a couple of years and I was amazed at the results. I usually am beside a PT6 and both players are way better than adequate, bordering on magnificent. The PT6 provides a wonderful foundation on which to place the rest of the section but the Alex is an amazing partner. Not only was the intonation in the section the best we have had in some time, but the blend was far superior to anything recently. It is just so easy to partner with that sound. Again, I don't think it's a player issue but a core of sound issue. Wow that was fun last night! I posted this to ask, " Why do Alex tubas sound like they do? Has anyone done a scientific analysis of the overtone series to find out why it is a different sound than other tubas?"

tbn.al wrote:I didn't realize when I resurrected an old post that the title had been deleted.

Would be a shame for all the old posts in the "dotted" thread to be lost -- here's the link:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46591

The right driver can race a Nash Rambler.

In spite of a rude posting to the contrary, Alexander tubas, including the venerable old Alex 163, can and often does have great intonation. If they do not, the variables that make it that way are 1) poor assembly at the factory, resulting in leaking joints, 2) player error, 3) a bad mouthpiece fit, or 4) dents and/or other damage to the instrument.

The Alexander 163 orchestral tuba basically has a 4/4 size body with oversized valve bore, giving it exceptional "punch" to it's sound, a lot of dark core with very little overtones or edge. You have to pump one extremely hard to drive it to the point of edging-out.

With very little overtones, or higher frequencies present in the sound, there is less potential for interference with the overtones or higher frequencies of other instruments, so it is easier to blend an Alex with just about anything else.

RE: Bloke's photo of the early 2155 rotor CC, I had one of the first prototypes in my shop at one time. It had 5 right-hand rotors and two left-hand triggers to operate 1st- and 2nd valve slides. It did have a bit of "punch" to the sound, but I never associated it with the Alexander, as it had really serious intonation difficulties, and weighed nearly twice as much as a hand-made, 4-rotor Alex 163.

Whenever I replace the leadpipe on an Alex, I form the receiver end to the size of a modern mouthpiece shank, so a typical mouthpiece will really fit without modification, and the intonation just gets better. Otherwise, Alexander makes an adaptor sleeve which I keep in stock, so that I can modify an existing mouthpipe to accept a normal mouthpiece. An Alexander in prime condition will play as well in tune as any other professional tuba in prime condition, all other factors being equal.

Jay Hunsberger of USF (and Sarasota Orchestra) plays an Alex-F with his quintet. I saw him play at SERTEC four of five years ago and I never saw him pull a slide during his quintet performance. I asked him about this afterwards and he told me that the Alex has excellent intonation and usually doesn't need to pull a slide.

It's a great question. In total, I have played three:

163 CC
164 CC
F

The 164 I played was a six-valved behemoth. It was quite large, but surprisingly light. I used to be pretty good at figuring out how to get out of a horn what I needed in order to be functional with whatever was presented to me. For the life of me, I could NOT figure this horn out. The pitch was all over the place and no amount of slide pulling was really going to make it, "playable."

The 163 I played was a five-valved horn. For this trial, I took my wife with me. She used to be a music major and played next to me in band (that's how we met). She had always liked the way I play, but to her a tuba was a tuba was a tuba. When I got to playing this particular horn, though, her eyes lit up and her jaw dropped. I'm not kidding. It's the kind of face that was made for a meme.
When I asked what was wrong, she said she had never heard the tuba sound like, "that." She couldn't put her finger as to why she felt that way, but she knew something was different about this horn.
The pitch was significantly better than the 164, but still had its quirks. Very manageable quirks.

The F I played, I owned for a few years. Before then, I had never owned an F..much less played one. Having played these two prior instruments, I knew of the potential but I had no idea of the scale. Once it was played for me, I knew I had to have it. It took me two weeks to "learn" how to play F tuba and about another month to figure out what the horn needed from me in order to really make it go.
It was, by far, THE BEST tuba I've ever owned, played, and will probably ever play. I would have gladly put it up against any other real F tuba out there and liked its chances. It had the best intonation of the three. I really only had to adjust the first slide and every now and then the main slide. Apart from that, it was set and forget.

I'm not a smart enough guy to put into words exactly what it is about their sound. But, once I played one..even the really bad one..I knew I was hooked. It was the closest thing that allowed me to make the sound that's in my head. They're not for everyone. Hell, they're not for the majority! But if you're hooked, there's nothing really out there that will satisfy you. It's really one of the reasons I don't play anymore. I sold mine to an exceptional gentleman. I wouldn't want to play on anything else at this point. And if I don't get to play anymore, I'm happy that I had a couple of years with that horn.

Presence. The Alex sound has a lot of presence.

Been lurking on the site for a while and have to jump in on this thread if only to sing the praises of my tuba. I've played on an Alexander BBb for about 20 years. Guessing it was made in maybe the late 70's or 80's. No clue really, but stamped Made in W Germany and the linkage looks 80s. (If anyone knows how to date these things, let me know!) I had my leadpipe gently tapered to receive a regular shank.

I love it. No, I'm in love with it.

I've never had a complaint about intonation - usually the opposite! - although I use my share of alternate fingerings depending on the key I'm playing in. (That never seems to come up now does it?) I don't need to pull slides except for maybe really low notes since it only has 4 valves.

And I love the sound. Someone mentioned "presence" and I think that's about right. Anyway, it suits me. It fits me. It's my horn and we work together very well. And I find it easy to blend in any ensemble: quintet, band, orchestra, funk, dixie...

However, I must say this: It is non-forgiving! If my buzz isn't dialed in, the horn will laugh at me. Some pitches are easier to slot than others, but most demand commitment and focus. But when I've got it together, the horn will sing and positively glow in the dark.

It's been dented. It's been worked on. And over and over. It's been moved in the back seat of my car too many times. It is not pretty. I wish it was. But it's the only horn I want to play on and I can't imagine not having it with me.

And, since photos make a post more fun... Here's my love:

If anyone out there has a really bad Alexander 163 CC and wants to sell it at a really low price, I'd be delighted to buy it from you. You see, I've had the experience of taking the worst Alex 163 I've ever played and making it the best Alex 163 I've ever played, simply by taking the entire instrument apart, de-denting it, and then carefully putting it back together with 100% soldered joints. On the instrument in question from the 1970's, not one joint was properly soldered, so the instrument was leaking like a sieve throughout. I re-assembled it as a competent plumber would, added a new Alexander left-hand 5th valve, and replaced the worn leadpipe with a new Alexander goldbrass leadpipe, which I lead-filled, bent, finished and installed. At the mouthpipe end, instead of replicating the enormous original receiver size, I tapered it only enough to accept a modern European tuba shank, meaning that a Perantucci, Tilz or Rudolf Meinl mouthpiece was a perfect fit. The nickel-silver outer sleeve was a little larger than that, but I filled the difference between the leadpipe and receiver with soft solder, and it looked original. The final product played completely differently, with intonation as good as anything on the market, and the trademark Alexander sound.

Alex tubas have a dark, dense sound with lots of presence. The sound is focused with lots of center, but also big and round at the same time. I DO think the thin metal somewhat effects the sound. In my experience, the thinner metal used in tubas like Alexanders, Cervenys and many old German/Czech tubas make the sound a little lighter (not to be confused with brighter) and a little sweeter, and the response more forgiving. But that thinner metal also dents easier.

The PT-6 mentioned earlier is closer to the York-type sound than to the Alex sound, imo. The PT-6 sound is much more overtone-y, wider, and not nearly as dense as an Alex.

The old rotary M-W 2155 has a similar sound and intonation to the Alex, but not exactly like it. The 2155R has a few more overtones in the sound, and actually more bass/heaviness in the sound, partly due to the thicker metal. But the sound denseness, darkness and core are pretty similar.

The 2155R is not a forgiving horn. Similar to the Alex, you have to spend time on it to sound good and polished, but once you do, you can sound good on it. I have gotten more compliments on that horn than any other tuba I've played. It can be played in-tune, and is not as bad as what some here are making it out to be. I set my slides, do a little lipping, use a couple alternate fingerings and get good intonation. Very little slide pulling. I have "floated" my leadpipe around the bell, and it somewhat improved the response. But someday I may look into replacing the old leadpipe with a slightly smaller one for easier, better response.

Alexander seems to have gotten the response "right" with all their tubas. Every Alex tuba I've played has had great response and really great sound. I've heard the newer ones have better intonation and still retain that great, classic sound.

Anyone here have an old and new Alex (of the same model) together to compare