Cerveny Tuba question

[butch]

Interesting. I was going by Langwill. Vitak listed earlier in Canton as "buffer", "driller", in 1886 as music teacher; 1891-1901 as MI dealer, from 1901 in Chicago as agent (?sole agent) for V F Cerveny....no mention in Langwill re. Cinci....
Mark

Greene writes that his information about Vitak is mostly oral, told him by people that knew his nephew and partner Joseph Elsnic. So your source may be more accurate.
Mr. Georgi, also mentioned on the cartouche, was born in Germany.

[butch]

By the way, Louis Vitak was also a composer and arranger.

http://www.loc.gov/jukebox/artists/detail/id/5511/

[bigtubby]

Sometimes Ari at Amati Strunal U.S.A. is able to help with these questions. As I understand, the Cerveny (maybe more importantly, Amati) records are not complete but often he will forward requests like this to the folks who build them in CZ.

[butch]

There is an other cartouche (from an euphonium) that is quite similar as the ones shown above. See the spelling of «Koeniggrats», which is different.


[url]Source: http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/Exhibitions/Muz ... rveny.html[/url]

Butch

[bisontuba]

Very interesting.....also many examples on ebay of music by Louis Vitak...
Mark

[reastman1952]

Also, I'm now wondering if my badge was a mistake, or engraver's error, as it uses a single "G" in Konigratz, yet most of the others (so far) are Koniggratz (original spelling) or Koeniggratz.

The spelling on your horn has to be a mistake, as the correct german name of that small town in Bohemia is "Königgrätz". Actually it should be "Königingrätz" because the town of "Grätz" became seat of the widow of two kings and the town was renamed to "Königingrätz" (Königin is Queen in german). But in the beginning of the 19th century it was shortened to "Königgrätz". By the time your tuba was built, Königgrätz belonged to the Austro-Hungarian empire.
(Sorry for the long and maybe annoying text, but I'm a historian. )

Regards Butch

PS: Maybe the misspelling is because your tuba is an early chinese clone of a Cerveny.

Butch, I think you're correct that it is a mistake, possibly by the engraver. (Don't apologize, I'm a professional genealogist and try not to ramble in historical facts) I think it begs the question though... were the cartouches made in Königgrätz, or in the city they were exported to? With all the variants of the location, I would guess that they were engraved by Canton and Chicago engravers and added to the bell later, which would account for the varied use of fonts and location spellings, possibly even the metals themselves. Would also account for mistakes! Perhaps a look into the engravers that Vitak used might shed some light. Who knows... Canton is a province in China.

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Well, the mystery thickens. Vince also has an early Cerveny Vitak Eb with a 13" bell--see his website.
And....I looked at my horn's shield again--here's a close up:



Notice the spelling of Koniggraz- NO 'T'...hmmmm...

Mark

[reastman1952]

Yes Mark, I saw Vince's EEb. The font usage is the same as yours but Koniggratz is spelled correctly. Interesting to note that your cartouche drops the T and Konnigraz is preceded with a capital A. I've seen the letter A in another cartouche on Tinker's Web site. Both are included here.

[reastman1952]

Adding one from a Cerveny Euphonium credited with being ca. 1905. This time Koeniggrats. (This is the one Butch uploaded)

[bisontuba]

Hi-
If folks own old Cerveny's with the Vitak shield, might I ask you to take a close up of the shield and post it on here? Let's see how many varieties of this shield exist!
Thanks-
Mark

[butch]

Knowing that Vitak's partner Georgi was German, it's weird that he didn't how to spell Königgrätz properly.

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Shield from Early Cerveny BBb tuba with roller valves with Vitak shield from Canton, OH--pre Columbus Expo-courtesy Brass Players Museum... (He dates the horn c. 1880, but being Canton, it is earliest c. 1891)...FYI...mark

[reastman1952]

This is great Mark, thanks. I note the font same as yours but only one medallion... the obverse AND reverse of the Paris Exhibitioners Medal. Spelling with 2 "G"s. Wonder how he arrived at 1880?

[reastman1952]

From a post 1901 Cerveny Helicon. Hmmmm... 1 "G"... and with an "E".

Will the real Koniggratz/Konigratz/Koeniggrats/Koeniggratz/Hradec Kralove please stand up!

[reastman1952]

Hello all...

Well, it is now 4 years later and based on Tubenet's recommendations, I had the old Cerveny Eb restored by Norm Epley at NRE Brassworks in Lexington, Kentucky. Norm has been nothing short of amazing in his restoration work, especially considering that the horn's wreath and bell were severely damaged on the journey to his shop. The Cerveny should arrive in a week and I couldn't be more excited to play this gorgeous horn that belonged to my great grandfather!! (see pics in earlier part of this thread)

[reastman1952]

This is what the Cerveny looked like and its progression of restoration...

[imperialbari]

This tuba is out of the Cerveny de Luxe line that was discontinued around 1930. The rotors are turned 90° around the airpath axis, so that the pressure of the finger paddle acts directly on the rotor through a very short link. The rotors were loaded through the top of the rotor casings.

I don’t remember, when this line was introduced. Finding my original source has become harder, as modern Cerveny has introduced a new DeLuxe line. Windshieldbug may be in the know.

Klaus

[EMC]

That's awesome! I wish modern day tubas were more ornate and had badges/sheilds and engravings like that used to.

[tubapix]

Congratulations on the restoration of your grandfather's horn. Norm did a beautiful job and you will have many years of pleasure playing this piece of history.

[Casca Grossa]

Wow!!! Looks amazing!!!