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At last, my Rudy Meinl 4/4 CC has arrived! Wanted to post a few initial opinions about it.

First, unfortunately, the bell was crushed during shipping. Working through that now, but will have it fixed (properly) and move on from it. It's frustrating and it's major damage, but could have been worse.

Now onto the fun stuff, with the caveat that the bell is in bad shape:

Initial impression is that this tuba is just what I was looking for, something similar to but slightly bigger than a Mirafone 188. In fact, the two tubas are very similar to each other, more so than I had expected. The Rudy is just a little bit bigger though, and I like the sound a little more.

The first note I played I thought "wow, I still sound like me." No matter what tuba you play, to some level you still sound like yourself. Not a bad thing, just surprising sometimes. Other thoughts after a few hours on it:

* Great sound -- very big, very dark, and very pleasing
* Great intonation -- I can even play the E and Eb in the staff as 0 and 2. I guess the really high partials get a little off, but I didn't pull out my tuner, and the current state of the bell isn't going to make that entirely accurate either.
* Easy to play -- loud or soft, it does exactly what you tell it to do. And if you step on the gas, it will GO. Very open and free blowing, and doesn't back up. So, no excuses -- anything wrong with the output is on me. I like that.
* Valve linkages are noisy (top play), but that was expected and disclosed to me by the seller.
* Ergonomically, it's VERY comfortable, and the fifth valve is EXACTLY where my thumb expects it to be.
* Construction/build quality is exceptional. This tuba is 20--30 years old(?), I can only imagine how great it looked new.
* Heavy -- for a handmade tuba, I thought it would be lighter. Not a problem, just surprised a bit by that.
* Switching back to a flat whole step fifth valve is screwing with my mind. Might want to get a minor third slide built for me at some point in life.

Also found it interesting that the engraving on the bell is actually a stamp, not engraving (you can see it "pushed through" to the inside of the bell). Not sure that's uncommon, but I thought it was interesting.

And, it's cool that all of the parts (valves, caps, rotors, etc...) all have a "2" stamped onto them, as well as some other marking on the tuba from the assembly line. I'm assuming that with all of the hands-on work involved at the factory, this is to keep it straight which parts go with which tubas.

Overall, it's definitely a keeper, but it needs some work both to address the damage and to address some of the other known issues. What surprises me the most is that even in it's injured state, it is STILL a nice playing tuba that plays and sounds very nice. If I like it this much now, I'm excited to know that it will only get better from here!

Photos to come later today.

I'm glad you still sound like you! Congrats!

and big bummer about the bell...

Bort,

If the bell was crushed in shipping you are due a major discount, this is no longer the horn it was and it will definitely affect resale value. Also, before keeping a Rudy of any kind check out the intonation quite thoroughly, and I mean very very carefully. Perhaps they have improved over time but you are spending major cash here, be sure you aren't accepting an unplayable tuba based on tone alone. Check EVERY note in every register to know what you are getting into.

That being said, if it plays in tune and doesn't have any dead spots congratulations.

I hope you get a fair insurance settlement on the shipping damage very soon.

Thanks guys. I've put the tuba through its paces pretty well for the limited time I've had so far (a few hours). Will spend some serious time with it this weekend. The negative things about it all seem traceable to the shipping damage -- mostly resonance in the bell (duh), a buzz from a loosened brace, and maybe a slight air leak.

Intonation has not been problematic, and no dead zones either, though I will check thoroughly this weekend. Actually, the biggest intonation issue is in the pedal range, but that's user error -- I'm a dyed in the wool minor 3rd fifth valve player, so anything F and below is something I need to re-learn. Nothing else jumps out at me, and it should only improve when the minor problems with it (apart from the bell) are addressed, and when I have it checked for the other things like valve alignment, etc.

The insurance adjuster should be here next week. Knock on wood, as long as that goes smoothly, I'm making plans to have Lee Stofer do the bell and a few other fixes to get it back into optimal playing condition (within my budget, of course). No, it's not the same tuba now that it once was. But if there's a person who can make it so, it would be Lee. (And that's not a knock on any other repairman, just that Lee has more Rudy experience and direct training than others.) I really see this tuba as being worth the investment.

bort wrote:Also found it interesting that the engraving on the bell is actually a stamp, not engraving (you can see it "pushed through" to the inside of the bell). Not sure that's uncommon, but I thought it was interesting.

I wonder if it's possible for engraving to show through on the other side, if it's done with a heavy hand?

Congratulations!

FWIW: My 4/4/ Rudy was a 4-valve, probably 5-10 years older than yours. It was repaired after a fall down the stairs, and the bell had a good memory and went back into shape pretty easily.

As to intonation, I had to do very little to "help" it play in tune (The quote in my signature line was spoken about this horn). I had to train myself to stop favoring certain notes after playing a Cerveny/Sanders 681 for years. You might find 1-3 to come in handy to keep your G's centered at low volume. Otherwise, after 6 months, I was good to go.

As I told you before, I never should have sold my Rudy, and I wish you many happy years making rich, dark music with yours!

Donn wrote:

bort wrote:Also found it interesting that the engraving on the bell is actually a stamp, not engraving (you can see it "pushed through" to the inside of the bell). Not sure that's uncommon, but I thought it was interesting.

I wonder if it's possible for engraving to show through on the other side, if it's done with a heavy hand?

I'll post a picture of it, maybe it's not what I thought.

As for intonation, I've been playing long enough that I can tell pretty quickly if something is off. I have certainly put tuba down and walked away for it. Here, my overall impressions were that it's not really all that different from the 188. It's not perfect perfect, but it's impressive and not a problem.

The damage totally sucks, but I'm glad I bought it. This reminds me of the first car I bought, a mint low miles Acura. About a month after I got it, I got in an accident where a taxi driver ran a red light. Almost totaled the car, but honestly it might have saved my life. It got repaired well, but was a bad experience of a new and good thing almost destroyed. Everything will work out okay, its just a matter of money to get it fixed. I have all the confidence in the world that Lee can restore it to its proper glory.

Donn wrote:

bort wrote:Also found it interesting that the engraving on the bell is actually a stamp, not engraving (you can see it "pushed through" to the inside of the bell). Not sure that's uncommon, but I thought it was interesting.

I wonder if it's possible for engraving to show through on the other side, if it's done with a heavy hand?

Yes, definitely!
The engraving on my Willson pushed through the bell too, although it's sheetmetal is quite thick.
I guess it was machine-engraved ...

Wim

bort wrote:At last, my Rudy Meinl 4/4 CC has arrived! Wanted to post a few initial opinions about it.

First, unfortunately, the bell was crushed during shipping. Working through that now, but will have it fixed (properly) and move on from it. It's frustrating and it's major damage, but could have been worse.

Holy sh*t Brett.........that is NOT the story I was hoping to hear
I am deeply sorry that this has happened to your Rudy. But for what it's worth, both of my horns have recovered from
previous bell damage (my King was quite serious & looks almost like new again). Fortunately, as soft as brass is, serious
dents in the bell area are a fairly easy repair & in the capable hands of Lee Stofer, your Rudy should make a full recovery
and be good as new again (if not better). Still, it's a crying shame that this had to happen to you. Not to point fingers or to
place blame, but I am very curious as to what caused this damage to your horn. Was it due to improper packaging by the
seller or was it just a case of incompetence by the shipping company? I am also understandably curious which shipping co.
was used? I have bought, sold & shipped about 12 tubas in my lifetime & fortunately haven't had any shipping mishaps as of
yet, but at least on the horns that I packaged for shipping, they would have probably survived just about anything short of
a nuclear blast
Hoping the Rudy has a speedy & complete recovery from this tragedy...........as well as its owner

Best,

Craig

Here are a few pictures... the tuba itself, plus a view from inside of the engraving.

bloke wrote:It's probably not inexpensive from R.M., but they will sell/ship the parts, and...

...once your bell issues are addressed, I think you would really enjoy a R.M. #2 slide trigger mechanism.

- It gives you a spot-on 2/4 C# (as, typically, 2-4 is too sharp and 5-2-3 is typically too flat).
- It gives you a spot-on low D (5-2T-3-4)
- if anything played with 1-2 is sharp, you can fix that as well.

(The #2 rotor will need to be vented - possibly two vent holes - for the trigger to be of the most use.)

Properly installed, it's very comfortable to use; Hold the tuba with the left hand by gripping the small upper bow, and operate the trigger with your left hand thumb.

+1!

It's probably not inexpensive from R.M., but

The 2nd valve trigger is a 1200 Euro (~US$1666) option when buying a new tuba from Rudy.

It might be better to have a good tech make one for you, it's very useful to have - for all the reasons Bloke says.

Cheers,

Cam

My question: How are you getting the new horn out to Iowa? After your last shipment, I wonder if driving it out would cross your mind?!

scottw wrote:My question: How are you getting the new horn out to Iowa? After your last shipment, I wonder if driving it out would cross your mind?!

Well, the problem is getting it back from Iowa is the problem. Getting it to there, what else could happen.

But really, I would drive. Maybe wait until my next trip to see family in Minnesota or Chicago. Not sure yet, will figure it out next week.

cambrook wrote:

It's probably not inexpensive from R.M., but

The 2nd valve trigger is a 1200 Euro (~US$1666) option when buying a new tuba from Rudy.

It might be better to have a good tech make one for you, it's very useful to have - for all the reasons Bloke says.

Cheers,

Cam

Hi-
All Rudi Factory Triggers, whether for 1st, 2nd and/or 5th valves for a Cimbasso or for a 2nd valve for a CC Tuba cost 1200 Euros/US$1666 EACH....ouch....
Mark

If you want (or need) that many triggers, you've got bigger problems than costs.

One quick photo of the Rudy and 188 next to each other before packing it up. The Rudy has a distinctively different sound, bigger and darker than the 188. Both are great, but the 188 just seems smaller when played side by side, and I like the Rudy more for that. Still learning how to "drive" it, but this thing can make some serious sound. And that's with the bell as it is. Going to be an awesome tuba, I totally "get" the allure of Rudy Meinl tubas. I made the right choice.

Man that sucks that you and deholder had bell damage to your recent tubas. The seller should give you some compensation for the bad bell damage due to improper packaging. It is to be expected that most shipping companies will throw around packages...

So the tuba still sounds good even with that crinkled bell? I'll guarantee that it will sound even better after you have that bell smoothed out

tooba wrote:Man that sucks that you and deholderSo the tuba still sounds good even with that crinkled bell? I'll guarantee that it will sound even better after you have that bell smoothed out

Or, it might make almost no difference in the sound at all

Yeah, I wondered about that - and that "first dent" threshold has been crossed for sure.