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I went to a lot of school for music. Many of the people who will read this did as well. I have to say two things right away: First, I don't regret my education at all, and second, No one lied to me about what its like out there for a musician. That having been said, there are a few things that working as a musician has taught me that would be useful for all students of music to consider, especially when thinking about expanding their education beyond a casual, hobbyist level. Most of what lies below will also apply to other degrees in liberal arts, but my experience is in music. Take from it what you will.

1. Take your debt seriously.

This is the most important thing that any student should be thinking about. People always seem to say "student debt is the best debt to have." While that may be true due to factors like low interest rates and flexible payment plans (at least for federal student loans), it is still debt. The average amount of debt per student for a four year college is about $29,000. link: http://projectonstudentdebt.org/state_by_state-data.php" target="_blank With 70% of students in debt when they leave a 4-year school (where are the other 30% getting all that money??) that adds up to a lot of cash. When you consider how much you'll actually pay over the life of the loan, you may double or even triple that $29,000 figure. So what is the point? It is this: Don't screw around. If you've decided to make a liberal arts degree your only focus, get it done as soon as you can. Nothing in music or any of the other liberal arts fields leads directly to a career, and it costs the same as a practical degree. (The obvious exception is being a high school teacher, but that is definitely not for everyone, and the field is becoming increasingly competitive) Since you have no career to walk into when you get done with your degree, you have to make peace with the fact that you will undoubtedly be doing something that does not directly relate to what it says on your diploma. There are no "entry level" positions in music that will pay you enough to survive. For example, of the very few tuba jobs that get posted, there was one last year that paid $100 per service. If I remember correctly, there were about 40 guaranteed services. That sort of income is not liveable on any level. Regardless of the lack of gainful employment, six months will pass and you will have to start making payments on your loans. Yes, you can have them deferred, but that only delays the ineveitable and interest NEVER STOPS. Make those monthly payments as low as you can by getting out of school ASAP. This relates directly to my next point.

**As an aside, I have to say that college has often been considered a time to "find yourself." Try not to fall into that. You can find yourself later, and it is much cheaper to do it with a part time job than paying $10,000 a year in tuition. If you think you are different or special, you are not. The world does not care about anyone.

2. Cultivate other skills.

You need to be good at more than one thing. Most directly, become proficient at an instrument that is different from your primary. For me, that is bass guitar. Tuba and bass are related fairly closely, but knowing how to play bass has gotten me a lot of work recently that I would not have without that skill. You may wish to be unique and different from the crowd, but the reality is that you will get a lot more work playing a traditional rock instrument than any of the traditional orchestral instruments. Just from my experience, I would advise musicians to learn how to play drum set or keyboards. Guitarists and reluctant bassists can be found by the dozen, but in a lot of areas decent drummers and keyboard players are VERY difficult to find. If you are a competent drummer or keyboardist, you will have consistent work playing music. Market yourself properly and you will have to start saying no to people, which is a great problem to have. Any instrument you add to your arsenal will help, because when people ask "do you know anyone who plays...." you can say "yes! I do!" Also, cultivate your general life skills. Be willing to work and be easy to work with. If you do those two things, you will always have a job. You may not be making a whole pile of money or doing what you really want to, but you can at least survive. If you ever think that a job is beneath you or your education, you're a jerk and you should be glad somebody is willing to put up with you enough to give you a paycheck. Sure, I have feelings of frustration that I am not getting paid what I truly deserve and don't have a job I love, but so does 99% of the population. Being easy to work with is so very important. It is how you will get better and more work, both within and away from music. If you show up, you'll get work. If you show up consistently and with a smile on your face, people will want to have you around more. I've known countless people who are very talented in many aspects of life, but are a complete pain to work with. Don't be that guy. SO, along with cultivating your physical skills, cultivate social skills. Social skills are far more important than raw talent or technical ability. Your ability to play will get you called. Your personality and good attitude will get you called back.

3. Say yes. To everything.

This is a tricky one. I would revise this to "say yes to everything you get paid for," but that can be a tricky proposition. A better way to put it is "say yes to everything that has value." Getting paid is wonderful, but if you have a gig where you can make connections, that is sometimes worth a ton more than a paycheck. You can't always tell what those gigs will be, especially when you're new to an area, so it is helpful to begin by doing everything you have time for. You should also say yes to things that are outside of your comfort level. Playing on the edge of comfort will help you become a better and more complete performer. Maybe you're only sort of comfortable with jazz or rock and somebody asks you to sit in with them. Don't say no because you're not completely confident. Say yes because you'll have an opportunity to try something new and fun and make connections with musicians you would not otherwise have contact with. You may not directly profit from a gig like that, but it may lead to profit in the future. That having been said, do not let people take advantage of you. If someone else is making money from your performance, you should too. DO NOT play for free if someone is using your entertainment value to sell a product. Also, unless you have every bit of confidence in your employer, don't leave until you have your payment in hand.

4. Realize that continuing your education probably will not help you professionally.

I need to stress this: Adding a masters or doctorate to your liberal arts degree WILL NOT HELP YOU. Think seriously and carefully before you embark on a post-college education. Not only will you be accruing more debt by staying in school, you will not be making money and experience in the real world. Everything that you do in school costs you double because of that fact. Even if you get a tuition waiver and some sort of stipend, it probably won't be enough to cover the complete cost of your education. Sure, a waiver will save you a ton of money per year, but you'll still have to pay out of pocket for fees, books, and living expenses. Everything adds up very quickly, and the workload of a master's program often makes having a separate job impossible. Your level of employment is directly related to your level of playing, and getting another degree will not necessarily make you a better player.

5. If you choose this lifestyle, you will have to sacrifice

Being a musician is very difficult. To make any sort of living on music you have to get very lucky. Be aware that you will have to postpone things that "normal" people have to be serious about your music. Because you need to be free to go to auditions, do short notice gigs, tour, rehearse, and so on, anything you'd consider a career is out of the question. It is likely that you will have very little time off to yourself. Your one or two days off a week will soon turn into rehearsal and practice time. You won't be able to have children until later in your life unless you have a partner with a very good job. You won't be able to afford a house or nice car. Vacations are now your tour dates. It is difficult to love music enough to make it all worth it. There is also no shame at all in being a hobbyist musician, and you'll probably be a lot more content in your life.

Is it worth it to me? I'm not sure yet. Ask me when I'm retired. I'm still relatively young, and despite normal feelings of frustration, I don't feel I've wasted my life or my time. Above all, no one can tell anyone else what to do with their life. Make your own decisions, but realize that those decisions do come with consequences.

**********

I've been reading Harvey's autobiography recently and was reminded of what a friend of mine says. "Harvey was a great player when he got to New York City, yes, but he got out and hustled work." The same thing is true for every other name you ever heard back to the beginning of brass playing. Ginning up gigs is a second full-time job.

If you graduate in music and are ready to accept any playing job you won't make any money. You have to go out and sell your skills and create your own work.

Bottom line: if you think your skills are good enough to get work then you need to learn about the second half of the battle before you get discouraged. The really great musicians are driven to do hustle jobs, the rest of us kinda putz around with it.

**********

Here's what a significant number of us ended up doing:
I had a degree in music. In my 20s I had a position in a regional orchestra, a music lesson business that was full up, and a variety of free lance playing jobs. I could not afford to buy a house, or a new car. I looked around when I hit 30, said to hell with this, and went back to school for an engineering degree which took me seven years of sleeping on the floor and living out of boxes to get, because I was putting myself through.

But...when I retired I was making six figures, had a nice house and a nice car. And enjoying myself with music more than I ever did when I was getting paid for it.

MA

Oh look another thread that is meant to scare kids out of majoring in music performance. How original...Yes school is expensive and yes you will have a small mountain of debt but if you're majoring in what you love then it's all worth it. It'd be nice to see more threads saying why kids should major in music instead of "don't major in music because you'll be in debt and won't have a performance job."

I think the issue is more what they will be doing for the rest of their lives after college, rather than what they get to do while in college.

My wife had a awakening similar to Mary Ann. She was in the Canton Symphony while in high school and she noticed that all of the older players were driving crappy cars, living in crappy houses, and were miserable. So she got a music ed degree and two years from now will receive a huge bonus from DROP and start a nice pension. She has played as much as she wants to which is probably about6 thousand a year. I, on the other hand, went in the Army and ended up in the West Point Band, got out and goofed off at college for a year, realized it wasn't for me and joined a circus band (1975) and pretty much went from job to job, usually around a year or so each, bands in New Orleans the same, about a year at a time then came to Florida and was wooed by the Rat(Disney) and was full time there from 1983 to 2000 when my band got laid off and, there being n o full time positions available, took a job detailing the four steam engines from midnight to 6am for five years until I could retire and was able to do daytime work, Orchestra Kiddie concerts and whatnot, then began collecting a pension from the Union, the Rat, and tomorrow I'll get my first Social Security check. Never did repair work and hardly ever taught lessons and Never networked contractors. Wouldn't know where to begin. The moral to the story is that if you have a full time long running job music is OK but if you go from thing to thing after a couple years it starts to be a real drag. I'm not denouncing getting a degree but a music ed. degree actually can lead to a longterm fulltime job, in your field, and you play what you can. The live music business is shrinking faster than the Ozone layer. And I'll openly admit that I was incredibly lucky to work steadily for that long. The Best of luck to you all! Ed

PS Northwestern University from what I understand doesn't offer a Tuba performance degree unless you do a double major. If it's true the handwriting is pretty much on the wall. Sorry.

It seems to me that tuba players come in three varieties.

A. Players who are incredibly talented; are living and working at the top; own great equipment, and work very hard to stay at the top their of game.

B. Players who don't fall into group A, realize the absurdity of ALL of all this, then slink off to go do something else with their lives (with the occasional dabble back into tuba land)

C. This is the most interesting group: tuba players who just plain nuts, and stick with it because they WANT to stick with it. Everything else be damned. They say no to paying jobs they don't want to do, and yes to non-paying ones that they DO want to do. They do it because it's an obsession, and they don't want to learn or do any other obsession. This is the group I really admire. They're out there - god bless 'em.

You used a dash improperly.

EdFirth wrote:My wife had a awakening similar to Mary Ann. She was in the Canton Symphony while in high school and she noticed that all of the older players were driving crappy cars, living in crappy houses, and were miserable. So she got a music ed degree and two years from now will receive a huge bonus from DROP and start a nice pension. She has played as much as she wants to which is probably about6 thousand a year. I, on the other hand, went in the Army and ended up in the West Point Band, got out and goofed off at college for a year, realized it wasn't for me and joined a circus band (1975) and pretty much went from job to job, usually around a year or so each, bands in New Orleans the same, about a year at a time then came to Florida and was wooed by the Rat(Disney) and was full time there from 1983 to 2000 when my band got laid off and, there being n o full time positions available, took a job detailing the four steam engines from midnight to 6am for five years until I could retire and was able to do daytime work, Orchestra Kiddie concerts and whatnot, then began collecting a pension from the Union, the Rat, and tomorrow I'll get my first Social Security check. Never did repair work and hardly ever taught lessons and Never networked contractors. Wouldn't know where to begin. The moral to the story is that if you have a full time long running job music is OK but if you go from thing to thing after a couple years it starts to be a real drag. I'm not denouncing getting a degree but a music ed. degree actually can lead to a longterm fulltime job, in your field, and you play what you can. The live music business is shrinking faster than the Ozone layer. And I'll openly admit that I was incredibly lucky to work steadily for that long. The Best of luck to you all! Ed

What is DROP?

b.williams wrote: What is DROP?

Deferred Retirement Option Program. Several states have this type of option for public-sector retirees. Georgia's acronym is PLOP.

davidgilbreath wrote:

b.williams wrote: What is DROP?

Georgia's acronym is PLOP.

I find that INCREDIBLY funny.

Sorry to drag this back up, but my access to this site has been limited lately, and I felt I need to clarify some things.


-I was not trying to scare kids away from a music performance degree. Knowing what I know now, I still would have gotten the same degree, but I would have done things a bit differently. As I said, do what you love, but realize that if you love something like music, it will probably hurt you emotionally and/or financially at some point. A large part of what I was trying to communicate is that a performance degree is dangerous and, from a practical standpoint, a waste of time. However, not a whole lot of life is practical, so there you go.

-No one in school, including a majority of the faculty, has a realistic perspective on what it is like to actually perform professionally. If you want to perform, find somebody who does it and ask them how.

-You live in a very safe and idealistic world while in college. Many people view loans as a kind of endless "free money fountain" (partially because of how freely they are handed out and how they are marketed) and never feel the need to work during school to reduce their debt. Given how I have to work now to be 100% independent, I DEFINITELY would have worked harder during school.

-I had the "F-you, I'll do what I want" attitude in school. It did not help me then, and doesn't help me now. Life is a lot easier if you play by the rules, and there is no shame in having music be something you do as a hobby.

-If you can get out of school with no debt, go to all the school you want. Hell, be a career student. It is lots of fun.

HERE IS SOMETHING I FORGOT!

I spoke with a woman who was involved in the recording industry for quite a few years. She goes to the Grammys and votes and all that stuff. Her exact words when I informed her that I have a master's degree in performance were that "that level of education is unusual in the music industry." In popular music, most professionals making a good living do not have degrees in music. Education is sometimes something that is scoffed at too, so be aware of that. I've met more people than I can count who are more impressed by musicians who taught themselves and can't read music than finely honed and schooled performers.

I find that I enjoy my music as much as my friends who are pros, in fact more than most of them will admit. A job is a job is a job is a job................... ad infinitum. Making a buck is not the only reason for studying music. It's not even the most worthwhile reason, as long as you understand that your student loan is paying for a very expensive hobby. If I had it to do over again I would probably study music again. When I got done I would find a business to get into to pay for it.