TubeNet

This picture has been around the block a few times. LB Oliver and Terry Stryker are trying to figure out exactly what happened to it.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30808&hilit=Jay+mca ... 12#p269577" target="_blank

Mark

I have conflicting opinions:
1) Wow that's awesome, why didn't they make more??
2) Maybe it wasn't a very good tuba. That era undoubtedly had many great players who used tubas that, today, we would not think are great.

Either way, it's a cool tuba. Reminds me of a mix between BigBob's Gnagey/Martin 6/4 and a Rudy Meinl 4/4. I would love the chance to own an American-made, rotary CC tuba... some day!

That huge rotary Bb lives here in Orlando now. I don't have pictures of it though. I think back in the day guys just got a horn and learned to play it. There most likely wasn't a lot to choose from like there is now where someone buys a horn and a couple months later wants to "upgrade" to whatever. Bell,Novotny, Torchinsky- King, Jake-York, Harvey- Conn Jay Mcallister-Martin, Clarence Karella- Lyon and Healy. Although Fred Pfaff did have several horns scattered about New York city to avoid schlepping them around on the subway his main horn was a Conn. Later, when there was more to choose from Bell, Novotny, and Torchinsky all switched, I think in all three cases , to Meinl Weston. But that could have just been because their Kings were wearing out. Please pardon my digression. nostalgic Ed

The tuba referenced by Bloke is currently at Dan Oberloh's shop, awaiting some of his magic. He is loathe to cut any horn to CC, so other options include adding a 4th, putting in a straight lead pipe and placing the tuning slide after the valves, etc. He probably wants to tackle the big York projects first, but I will let him answer that for himself.

Mike Ferries wrote:The tuba referenced by Bloke is currently at Dan Oberloh's shop, awaiting some of his magic. He is loathe to cut any horn to CC, so other options include adding a 4th, putting in a straight lead pipe and placing the tuning slide after the valves, etc. He probably wants to tackle the big York projects first, but I will let him answer that for himself.

Well, that'll be ready in a few years...

Here is a rotary Martin that can be seen and heard as played by the great
Jay McAllister:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mExpGyauWGc" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

This beautiful tuba now resides in Texas.

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Tim_Loehr wrote:This beautiful tuba now resides in Texas.

Does it get used, or is it sitting in a private collection?

I'd bet it's in a collection.

Funny, I see no slide pulling or pushing on that Martin...I wonder if the pitch truly was/is as horrid as has been suggested.

Since there has been a lot of interest in the rotary valve Martins, I'll contribute...

Yes, it is in Texas, and I own it. No, it's not getting played--primarily because it's scale is not a familiar one, at least not to Western ears. But it is in line, as soon as the summer repair season slows down enough to free up some repair tech time, to have it looked at to see how much improvement might be possible with some valve work.

I know that the pitch has always been challenging, as Jay and I discussed it at the time I bought it from him. He even added valve venting--in the form of a spit valve located on the upward facing 1st valve crook. I have always thought it was quite a testament to his playing that he sounded as good as he did on the horn. But on the quintet recording, one can tell that it wasn't always easy.

I know a couple of people who can play any horn in tune, and maybe Jay had similar talents (perhaps he must have). I also just recently heard a quote attributed to Arnold Jacobs to the effect that "slide pulling is a crutch for those who can't buzz the right pitch."

Tuben--it is clear that horns do get stiffer and less vibrant when not played. BUT--from many instances of personal experience, when the horns are played again, the vibrancy returns. I can't either measure or articulate the degree of improvement relative to some time in the past, but I know of many that improve dramatically when played. Even modern horns that haven't been played for a few years will respond much better after a month of being played.

The rotary valve Martins are somewhat of an enigma, as I have never seen two that resemble one another. I know of 2 tubas in CC, 1 in Eb, 2 in BBb, and helicons in both Eb and BBb, and all are configured strikingly differently, to the point that they don't suggest coming from the same manufacturer but for the engraving on the bells. As a result, they don't really seem like horns built as prototypes toward some production goal; and some of the configurations are odd enough that having them all to have originated as custom orders doesn't seem likely either.

Mike

Thanks Mike!

Since it's just sitting there all lonely... how about a modern photo instead of those B&W grainy Youtube videos?

I have a Martin catalogue from about 1914 in which states that they will build any brass instrument with either piston or rotary valves. By the early 20's there is no mention of rotary valves in the company literature that I've seen. I tend to believe that Martin built all tubas only as orders came in since it wasn't a very large factory to begin with. Here's a page referring to rotary valves:

In response to a request in this thread. Here is a current picture of Jay McAllister's old rotary Martin.

Now That's a TUBA! And Jay did sound fantastic on it. Ed

Sweet!
Mark

Such a w-i-d-e wrap to it, never seen a bell connected to the top bow like that before. Wacky leadpipe too.

Thanks for the picture!

Is this a modified Mammoth?
It looks like a Mammoth bell taper, but cut down from 20" to 18".
Although it doesn't look like a 6/4 tuba, it looks very short and squat, even in the Bill Bell pic.

A tuba player in San Francisco named John Moore had a smaller 3 valve bell front CC that I think would classify as a modified Medium or Renowned. I believe it's the horn he's playing in this picture:

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And I think he can be heard playing it here;

http://youtu.be/Lpc7ZV6_wOI" target="_blank" target="_blank

That's about the best stuff I've heard since the great players of the 20' thru 30's. GREAT TONE, perfect time, and just the right amount of notes. None of the self gratitious,dumb, in the way of everything else, licks I hear a lot now.That guy was GREAT!, Ed