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Picked this up today in an antique shop. Serial # is 136XXX, which if it's a Conn, is from 1914 (but I could be totally wrong here). There is nothing to indicate that it's a Conn, but it says "Elkhart Band Instr. Co." on the back of the bell. Any idea?

As you can see, I'm missing the valve stems, but it is otherwise intact. Anyone have some replacement stems/buttons that would fit that they would part with? Just bought this for fun, but would love to clean it up and play it.

image by rckymtnwst, on Flickr

I believe that's probably a Buescher from a few decades later.

talleyrand wrote:I believe that's probably a Buescher from a few decades later.

Thanks. I came across that possibility too. Suits me fine for what I paid -- $50.

Looking at a few other pics online, I think Buescher is correct. And the serial number places it around 1923: http://drrick.com/buesc.html" target="_blank

I'll try to take a better pic once I get it cleaned up. And if anyone has thoughts about those valve stems/buttons, I would be appreciative.

I am doing research into the Elkhart Band Instrument Co with the goal of developing a serial number dating system. This baritone or euphonium may be a Pan American stencil for Elkhart BIC. However, it's hard to tell based on one picture. More pictures and detail would be required.

By way of information, this serial at 136000+ is at the moment based on my registry of serial numbers to date, is too high for the Elkhart BIC serial system. However, it fits Pan American late 1930's. If possible pictures of the bell engraving, the valve block with serial number, and if they exist the pistons would be helpful.

Best,
Kurt

I am the source for the Pan American brass and sax serial numbers system on the Conn Loyalist site. I am still working on the t-bones and woodwinds. I am also working on Elkhart band Instrument and the ART/Harry Pedler & Sons serial number dating systems.

Elkhart Band Instrument Company (EBIC) was essentially a subsidiary of Buescher. Pan American was a relatively independent manufacturing subsidiary of CG Conn. Both companies were incorporated in 1919 with the same principles AH Beardsley and CD Greenleaf. Titles indicating beardsley the main principle for EBIC, while Greenleaf was main principle for Pan American.The corporate registration numbers are similar and imply 1917 activity for both.

The first mention of Elkhart Band Instrument Co in the press or trades is 1918 with the advent of the new musical manufacturers association. From 1923 to 1928 EBIC had an address separate from Buescher. In 1928 the address is on E Jackson, similar to Buescher.

Pan American had its own serial number system for brass starting in 1917 and saxes in 1920. The famous "P" prefix started in 1920 for all Pan Am instruments. The saxes also has a"W", while the Pan American International line of brass had and "A" prefix.
So far I have been able to identify the EBIC serial number system for saxes started in 1923. Brass was launched and blended in 1928. In 1930 EBIC stared a new system, which extended into the "Built By Buescher" models.
The Conn Director 14 series launched in the mid 1950's is the same as the Pan American 58 series, launched post WWII. During 1956 and 1957 the two lines overlapped in serial numbers.

The serial number of 136000+ and design of this instrument is consistent with the launch of this design by Pan American in the late 1930's. It would be nice to be able to confirm with better pictures.