the false tone

[Chris]

I apologize in advance if this topic has already been covered.

I'm very curious about the mechanics of the tuba in regards to the false tone. If you practice false tones, does it 'loosen up the horn'? It seems like a lot of the time, most tubas don't have a good false tone until it's been "built" into the horn through diligent practice.

I know very little about the assembly of the horn (basically just where to put the mouthpiece), please share your experiences with me.

Thanks,
Chris

[Lew]

The only "losening up" of the horn that takes place through playing it is the very slight wear to the valves that takes place over time. No amount of playing changes the response of a horn. Metal does age, especially when subjected to temperature variations, and that can change how it plays, but again this takes place over a very long period of time.

This reminds me of the comments in an earlier post where someone mentioned the concept of a horn being "blown out." The thought was that after so much playing, or certain type of playing, a horn wouldn't play as well. It is a myth.

I think you are right though about the "diligent practice." False tones can be developed that way, but they are developed in the player, not the horn.

[Rick Denney]

BTW, what the heck is a "false tone"? Why not just learn to play the real tone instead of faking it?

I depends on who you ask as to which tone is the "real" tone. Fred Young would tell you that the false tone is the true fundamental of the instrument.

The notion that the partials follow a harmonic series is a matter of design, not definition. There's no assurance that something shaped like a tuba will play the partials according to any particular plan. The taper design controls the tuning of the partials and is equally as critical as the length of the instrument.

With that in mind, Dr. Young suggested that the false tone was a bona fide vibrating mode that was part of the harmonic series for tubas because of their shape.

False tones certainly feel different, but that doesn't mean they sound different. When TubaRay was over at my house after the Army conference, he had an opportunity to sit with my Holton, and I had an opportunity to hear it played by someone who plays well, for once. I asked him to play the low Eb as a false tone, and he did. It sound just like the F above it played on the fourth valve, which is to say it sounded fine. It was a thoroughly musical and usable note, and I have used it. It sounds like a real Eb, because it is a real Eb. No fakery.

With my four-valve instrument, getting low Eb in tune fingered 1-2-4 requires significant slide pulling. Also, the fourth-valve notes on that horn are more demanding requiring a huge amount of air blown just so. And my low register sucks. If I haven't learned how to play those notes using conventional fingerings with the security I would like by now, I'm not sure when I will. But I can play the false tone when I need it.

And besides, Arnold Jacobs used the false tones when they did the job, so it must be okay.

Rick "who thinks a low Eb false tone is not 'faking it'" Denney

[Lew]

...
When TubaRay was over at my house after the Army conference, he had an opportunity to sit with my Holton, and I had an opportunity to hear it played by someone who plays well, for once. I asked him to play the low Eb as a false tone, and he did. It sound just like the F above it played on the fourth valve, which is to say it sounded fine. It was a thoroughly musical and usable note, and I have used it. It sounds like a real Eb, because it is a real Eb. No fakery.
...
Rick "who thinks a low Eb false tone is not 'faking it'" Denney

That low Eb plays easily, in tune and solidly on my Besson 983, and on my 3 valve Martn BBb BAT. It's much less musical on my King 2341. On the Besson it's the true fundamental of the horn, so should be expected to be played open anyway, but I can go from that Eb chromatically down to the Bb below it on the Besson, and I can't do that on my other horns.

[TubaRay]

False tones certainly feel different, but that doesn't mean they sound different. When TubaRay was over at my house after the Army conference, he had an opportunity to sit with my Holton, and I had an opportunity to hear it played by someone who plays well, for once. I asked him to play the low Eb as a false tone, and he did. It sound just like the F above it played on the fourth valve, which is to say it sounded fine. It was a thoroughly musical and usable note, and I have used it. It sounds like a real Eb, because it is a real Eb. No fakery.

Rick "who thinks a low Eb false tone is not 'faking it'" Denney

As I recall from playing Rick's Holton, the false tones were quite easy to play and sounded quite good. This is not something I am accustomed to with my Miraphone 186 CC. I cannot recall finding false tones to be worthwhile on any Miraphone contrabass tuba I have ever played. I don't know if it is just me, or what the problem is, but I simply do not use them on my Miraphone. If I owned the Holton, I might begin to use them much more often. Rick's Holton is really a nice horn. If I were interested in playing BBb tuba again, I would hope I could find one as nice.

I guess this makes at least two of Rick's horns that you needs to be sure don't just disappear sometime. It would just be a coincidence if that happened right after one of my visits. Wouldn't it?

[Rick Denney]

I guess this makes at least two of Rick's horns that you needs to be sure don't just disappear sometime. It would just be a coincidence if that happened right after one of my visits. Wouldn't it?

The airline would never let you put it on the plane, heh, heh.

Rick to Redhead: "Someone broke into our house! What did they get?"

Redhead to Rick: "The only thing missing is the Yamaha and the Holton."

Rick "Hmmmm" Denney

[Will]

I found false tones to be a lot of fun on a sousaphone. It added something to marching band practice. I took no prisoners when a piece ended on a low Eb!


-heads

[WoodSheddin]

False tones enables a 3 valve instrument to play low notes which in theory are not available in its harmonic series.

It is not just a 3 valved thang really. I was working up a tune which had a a loud Db just above pedal C. The note went by reasonably quickly yet was the lowest note of the line at a fortissimo dynamic. It had to be heard and had to really punch out. Playing that note with the standard 12345 fingering on my CC tuba produced a stuffy horn, a LONG length of tubing to fill with sound, and still needed to come out in time and in tune and at dynamic.

I play it 23 instead as a false tone and it does everything right. Being a false tone there was a LOT of flexibility in pitch so ya gotta use yer ears to lock it in the first time everytime.

Same thing can be done on the Ride of the Valkyries. The low E which is normally played 234 can also be played 2nd and jumps right out.

[Anterux]

I'm very curious about the mechanics of the tuba in regards to the false tone. If you practice false tones, does it 'loosen up the horn'? It seems like a lot of the time, most tubas don't have a good false tone until it's been "built" into the horn through diligent practice.

No. Tubas dont get 'loosen up' by playing false tones or any other tones. But YOU do.
You will adapt to the tuba. And you will play better false tones (or any other tones) if you pratice.

[ThomasDodd]

You don't say what type of tuba you are playing. I may stand corrected, but I think that false tones are only possible on a wide bore horn.

I have no problem with tham on a small bore trombone or my 0.656 boreOlds tuba.

But I have heard that some horns are less responsinve to them.

[Anterux]

• Jonathantuba wrote:
  You don't say what type of tuba you are playing. I may stand corrected, but I think that false tones are only possible on a wide bore horn.

It is possible on all horns I played. Trombones, Euphoniums and Tubas.
However, in some horns it is easier then in others. And it is not the same note (interval to fundamental) in some horns.

[Lew]

That low Eb plays easily, in tune and solidly on my Besson 983.

Wouldn't that be pedal Eb, the fundamental (for lack of better terminology) of an Eb instrument like the 983(like pedal Bb on a Bb horn)? Or are you referring to the equivalent partial on an Eb horn, which would be an Ab?

Doc

You are correct, that is the pedal Eb, but it's the notes below it that really surprise me. I was just wondering if those are false tones?

[wewhit]

As I understand, the "pedal" Eb is the fundamental of the open horn. The notes going down chromatically from there would then be the fundamentals of those valve combinations and not false tones.

The false tones would be the notes between the A natural (fingered 123) and the open pedal Eb. I have an old York 3 valve Eb and I can continue the scale down to the pedal using a variety of valve combinations and lipping. Pretty cool stuff.

[Chuck(G)]

As I understand, the "pedal" Eb is the fundamental of the open horn. The notes going down chromatically from there would then be the fundamentals of those valve combinations and not false tones.

The false tones would be the notes between the A natural (fingered 123) and the open pedal Eb. I have an old York 3 valve Eb and I can continue the scale down to the pedal using a variety of valve combinations and lipping. Pretty cool stuff.

As RD has mentioned, it depends who you ask.

The fundamental of your tuba is technically an octave below that open "false" tone. In other words, if you get an open Eb false tone on a BBb tuba, the fundamental is actually an octave below that. Unfortunately, it isn't very resonant. Curiously, on the same instrument, the "pedal Bb" doesn't even exist as part of the harmonic series!

For an explanation of this and other fascinating information on the physics of brass instruments, see:

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/brassacoustics.html