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Today, all British military bands play 3+1 compensated Eb and BBb tubas, so we can forget it was not always so. I have just got the set of books "The History of British Military Bands" by Gordon Turner and Alwyn Turner - and it is fascinating studying the pictures to see how the bands have changed over the years. I went through and noted the types of tubas being played in the mostly dated photos and as a result made out the chart below.

It is surprising how common helicon were in British military bands, in the late 19th century up until 1920's - at least as common as upright tubas and often in combination in same band. Between the first and second world wars cavalry, or front piston tubas were very common. And once the helicon had disappeared it looks like they were replaced by sousaphone which are seen right up until 1960's when they also were discontinued.

I wonder why only 3+1 top action tubas continued after that - possibly because from 1960's that was all Besson/Boosey & Hawkes were making and in the days before the European Union only British made instruments could be bought in UK?

Neptune wrote:- possibly because from 1960's that was all Besson/Boosey & Hawkes were making

That raises the question, at least in my mind, Why would they decide to do that given evidence of the other types of tubas currently in use? How did they arrive at the upright "3+1" solution when other instruments seemed to be more popular?
Pete

ppalan wrote:

Neptune wrote:- possibly because from 1960's that was all Besson/Boosey & Hawkes were making

That raises the question, at least in my mind, Why would they decide to do that given evidence of the other types of tubas currently in use? How did they arrive at the upright "3+1" solution when other instruments seemed to be more popular?

In the UK most of the market for tubas is from the large brass band market (I believe around 2,000 bands). Brass bands use exclusively 3+1 Eb and BBb basses. In the late 1950's B&H rationalised and stopped production of high pitch and discontinued making the F tuba (which is of course why John Fletcher started the playing of Eb in British orchestras). No doubt other models (maybe sousaphones?) were also discontinued.

I am just guessing why - and would welcome feedback from others of knowledge

Jonathan,
My bad...I forgot that British military bands are not brass bands. Of course you're right; that huge number of brass bands certainly would have a greater effect on choices of what products to produce.
Pete

A couple more photos...

Hmm. I thought that due to weight that even the BBb 3+1 comps were discontinued in UK military bands, or at least the marching units?

iiipopes wrote:Hmm. I thought that due to weight that even the BBb 3+1 comps were discontinued in UK military bands, or at least the marching units?

I believe that for marching only Eb tubas are used (modern Health & Safety concerns), but the BBb 3+1 comp are still very much used for concert use

iiipopes wrote:Hmm. I thought that due to weight that even the BBb 3+1 comps were discontinued in UK military bands, or at least the marching units?

The 3 newly formed Army Brass Bands use BBb on the march too now, full brass band instrumentation at all times. The H+S direction was seemingly reversed on their formation!!

One reason the BBb basses are marched in the military brass bands may be the different notation practices between military bands and brass bands when it comes to marching parts of British origins.

There only is one bass part in the military band editions. It is in bass clef concert with divisi passages where the Eb bass is supposed to read the top line and the BBb bass reads the lower line. As long as we talk traditional marches that lower line hardly ever goes lower than concert G, so that an Eb 3+1 compensator comfortably may play the lower divisi line.

In brass bands both Eb and BBb basses read treble clef transposed parts, where the Eb parts represent the upper divisi lines and the BBb parts represent the lower divisi lines. It would take the ability to read BBb parts while playing on an Eb bass to adhere to the safety rules. I very often have done that transposition, because I was used to extensive transposing from non-band musical activities, but then the point of the brass band notation system is that all valved instruments play with the same fingerings.

Klaus

I play a Boosey&Hawkes "Imperial" 3 valve BBb bass. Does the 3+1 designation refer to the fourth valve that is located at the side of the horn? Also, at what point did British band instrument manufacturers stop making 3 valve BBb tubas? Thanks!

According to catalogues: By the end of 1982.

Yes, the "1" in "3+1" is the 4th valve down on the side of the tuba played by the left hand. I had an early '70's Besson New Standard 3-valve comp. It is my understanding that the 3-valve comps were discontinued in the late '70's, before the "Sovereign" model replaced the "New Standard" model. Pity. A good 3-valve comp, if you don't need anything below 1+3 low F below open BBb, is the best in tune tuba ever built of any make or model. Yes, low C 1+3 could be stuffy, and another note here and there could be stuffy, but not bad. The main drawback of the 3-valve comp is because of the comp loops, and their resulting placement affecting nodes and anti-nodes, there are no usable "privilege" tones on a 3-valve comp.

But...time marches on, and more and more composers started requiring those near-pedal notes that needed the 4th valve to play them. And it did not make sense to continue to offer, from an efficiency in manufacturing standpoint (kind of like elimination of the "high pitch" horns of an earlier generation) both the 3-valve and the 4-valve versions. So the 3-valve versions of both tubas and euphoniums were discontinued.

Digression: because of their small bore and more cylindrical profile, which means that the lower range can get grainy, and therefore is not as useful and not called for in the literature, the 3-valve comp baritone horns are still manufactured.