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I remember playing a Miraphone 186 BBb that was so easy to play, it was like a toy. Not sure if that was typical or not...

The whole reason why I bought my BBb was because of it being extremely easy to play, and being very in tune. (It's for sale to help purchase a better F.)

I agree about the PT 605. It was just so easy to sound good.

I am not a professional tuba player, but.... I'm a reasonably good amateur player. As a repairman, I've had my hands on a good many what I consider to be responsive BBb tubas. I've also seen many horns that should have played well that didn't.

I've seen it all. One bad solder joint can cause a normally great horn to be dull and non-responsive. I've also seen horns that were beat nearly to pieces that played very well.

The question you are asking has no definitive answer. That being said... I can honestly tell you that horns that I've taken completely apart and reassembled seem to be more responsive after the work.

My favorites are my Miraphone 1291 5V and my Marzan 'slant-rotor'.

If I were a young man purchasing my first BBb tuba, it would be hard to beat the M-W GR51 I played a few years ago for response, intonation and consistency of tone from register to register.

Hard to beat a good new one piece King 2341 for both responsiveness and amount of sound for the minimal amount of input. As a bonus about the best intonation out there at a reasonable price point.

GregTuba79 wrote:

iiipopes wrote:If I were a young man purchasing my first BBb tuba, it would be hard to beat the M-W GR51 I played a few years ago for response, intonation and consistency of tone from register to register.

At $7,500 that is a lot of dough for a young tuba player. But I really like the looks of this horn, very compact and probably is easy to maneuver

Indeed. It is. Very. But since at the time a few years ago when I got to play one, I did not have any paying gigs, I couldn't justify it.

If you are interested in a B&S GR-51 (aka PT-605), MUSIC123 is offering a 15 percent discount (using the coupon) off the regular price of the instrument giving a price of just over $6400 for one in lacquer. A really good deal on a really great instrument.

I've owned about 70 tubas over the years and I only count the ones I've played for money, and have also played on every one I could get my lips on. Looking for the majic wand as it were. Since this is not about tone, pitch, projection but just response two come to mind. If you get a good Cerveny they are incredibly responsive and, It's almost the other end of the sonic spectrum, a good Martin Mammoth. I've had five of each and still have a Martin though the rest of my horns are Kings. Ed

GregTuba79 wrote:Even $2000 is hard to justify as a hobbyist.

We have to fork out the money up-front for our hobby, but when compared other hobbies like golf, fishing, hunting, or anything else, it's probably not all that different in the end. In fact, since it's largely a one-time cost, we probably come out ahead.

Anyway...

I just remembered another responsive BBb tuba, which was a Conn naked lady sousaphone I used in college. I think sousaphones are impractical for most everyday uses, but it did play very well.

I sure hope no one's getting their financial advice from Tubenet. If you're interested in getting any information about responsive Bb tubas, you're kind of shooting down your own thread with crap like that.

This PDF from the US Census on Household Debt in the U.S.: 2000 to 2011 is for those who are interested in demographics of household debt in recent years.

Folks, back in 1974:

1) The stock market was flat, so many people invested in land.
2) Consumer credit devices were not as prevalent. Yes, there was American Express, based on the "country club" system (pay off the bill at the end of the month - still in use by both AmEx and many country clubs), and BankAmericard, the predecessor to VISA, only issued to high-credit-score people, with a significant monthly payment, more than the average 2% of outstanding balance now the norm. A couple of years later, my Mom's brother-in-law bragged about being one of the first in the area to get a Master Charge card, the predecessor to MasterCard.
3) Many people were just becoming aware, with the "gasoline crisis" that we live in a world economy.
4) Most people were debt-free, not because of choice, but because they couldn't qualify for loans.

How do I know all this stuff, since I was only 12 years old at the time? My Dad had died and my Mother was trying to make ends meet as a real estate broker. Her only credit between the time my Dad died in 1971 and 1974 when she started making a lot of commissions in real estate was the gasoline station card, and the only reason she had a car to drive in the meantime was that credit life insurance paid off the debt on the death of Dad.

There are many reasons people are in debt, all the way from spendthrift to having to manage the sudden onset of negative circumstances, and everything in between. Some amount of managed debt helps people have homes and transportation, facilitates capital improvement, and provides liquidity to the economy. Unmanaged debt does not. But nobody can stand here and make the assertions, aspersions, and generalized comments without first looking into the mirror, for we have all purchased something or incurred debt for something that someone else does not consider "necessary." I just hope all of your mortgages are on homes that are not made of glass.

In an attempt to put this thread back on course, I'll chime in and say I absolutely love the response throughout all registers of my B&S GR55, the 5/4 version of the GR51 mentioned in earlier posts. I switched from CC and F to BBb and EEb some years ago and have owned and played many horns. I don't think I've ever had a horn I enjoy more.

GregTuba79 wrote:In your opinions as professionals, who play B flat horns.

GregTuba79 wrote:I would LOVE to own a brand new Kanstul or Mirafone Tuba, but it's just not practical if you're not making your entire 6 figure income from playing tuba somehow. Hence, personally I would love something 1/3 that price that is responsive and plays really well.

There seems to be an inherent contradiction here. You're looking for input specifically from BBb tuba playing professionals, but not about the tubas they'd choose to play?

(Not that one could expect many to make 6 figures from playing tuba, but ... I think it's fair to say that the professional musicians I know could never have afforded the instruments I've had. The market for expensive instruments is affluent musicians, which eliminates at least as many professionals as amateurs.)

I'll add concensus to the Martin Mammoth then. Amazing.

If you're really looking for a horn as you describe, a used 186, Cerveny quasi - Piggy (really, a Piggy is in CC, but there is a very similar BBb), or an Olds 099 would be your best bets. The Olds can be found with a couple other names.

Doc wrote:There are some great examples out there. One that hasn't been mentioned yet is the Miraphone 282. It is a smaller BBb tuba with great response AND great intonation. The show horn that used to go around to all the conventions was a very fine example. Slightly smaller than a 186, but very easy to play. Nimble and easy to steer. Good and solid all the way up and down.

Yes! I tooted on the Mira 282 BBb 10-15 yrs ago at one of those tuba conferences. Very easy to play tuba with easy response, great pitch and a sound perfect for quintet/chamber music.

I also thought the VMI 3302 BBb was a great all-around tuba that responded very well. Both were at the WWBW booth.

The most responsive BBb tubas I have ever played are World War One vintage King top action BBb tubas in good mechanical shape. My 3 valve King from 1917 with re-plated valves is as close to self playing as I have yet to find.

ehlutzcem wrote:Just for the record, I recently did my first concert with our municipal band with my brand-new BBb Chinese Schiller/Jin Bao tuba, and I am still really pleased with this horn. Intonation is good. Valves work well. Response (to me) is like playing a really large euphonium, which I still consider to be my main instrument.

Which model is this?

eupher61 wrote: An Olds 099 would be your best bets. The Olds can be found with a couple other names.

That's interesting! As an Olds 099-4 owner, I'd like to know some of the Olds stencils.

The Big Ben wrote:

eupher61 wrote: An Olds 099 would be your best bets. The Olds can be found with a couple other names.

That's interesting! As an Olds 099-4 owner, I'd like to know some of the Olds stencils.

I don't think stencil is the right word, but there are notable and unlikely-to-be-coincidental similarities with some Reynolds and Conn tubas, and then when Olds went under, Bach carried home some stuff from the factory and made the 099 under the "Mercedes" line. Those Bachs are real clearly the same thing.

It has been decades, but while I think my 099 was a good and versatile tuba, I don't remember that it was exceptionally magically responsive or anything like that.