BMB 6/4

[sweaty]

I've played the BBb and the CC. I liked them both a lot and thought the BBb was better. The notes, especially in the cash register, seemed to just sit more securely.

[amg123]

I'm not much of a fan but the C seemed to have some odd intonation problems/wide slots. Before I was an employee at the music store I'm now working at, they loaned it to me for a few weeks but that particular one just never sat well with me during that time. It seems other have had more success with the BBb.

[tofu]

Never owned nor played one, but for what it's worth I've never seen a photo of anybody playing one who looked at all comfortable holding it.

[PaulMaybery]

I've had the 6/4 CC BMB in silver for about a year now. I love it. It is a beast to lug around but that is what handcarts are for. And - it does pretty much demand a stand/rest to position it. BUT - the sound that I can generate from it is quite remarkable - I think one can refer to it as "presence." Large tubas of that nature often have quirky intonation - that is no secret - but we usually don't use them in intimate chamber music settings. They are "cannons" so to speak and produce a breadth of sound that 4/4 horns simply can not achieve. Mine has what I think is pretty darn good intonation. The open notes are all manageable without slide adjustments with the exception of the E in the staff. The dependent 5th valve frees up the main horn from having to direct the air through that extra resistance of the 5th valve unit. The result for me is a monstrous low register.

When I first got the horn it took some getting used to both with regard to producing a resonant sound and learning the intonation patterns. (I would practice every day with a mic on the bell going into a "Boss" dial tuner.) Once I loosened my chops into the dynamics of the horn's sound, I found the intonation began to settle in as well. We can't play them like a 4/4 horn. I pretty much settled on using a moderate size mp for most of the concert band I was doing this summer (an old 1930s Helleberg) But the premium mps such as the G&W Baer, Monette 94 and the Sidey Classic Helleberg all function very well. I have a few of the Wedge mps in Delrin (plastic) and they help give things a little lighter profile to the timber. The Monette in particular offers a very dense sound that can obliterate just about every other instrument on stage. A player on the 6/4 horns also needs to learn how to produce a transparent sound. The PT88+ for instance shakes the house, and consequently for me its limit the flexibilty. The BMB is a huge horn and somewhere in the mix with mouthpieces there needs to be some resistance. Schilke Helleberg 2 and the Geib also work great. I have found that the slots seem comforatble wide and that I can pretty much put the pitch where it needs to be just by embouchure centering. Then there is the whole concept of using the more focused F tuba solo mps. G&W, Sellmansberger, Wedge seem to work very well in this regard. They seem to intensify the core of the sound. Plus they tend not to suck the breath out of you.

I will confess that all my playing life I wanted a BAT and could never manage to get a hold of one. Playing them is a totally different concept from playing smaller 4/4 horns - which by the way are actually pretty big. When I did get this one last year, I really had no perspective on what to expect.
My first attempts for several weeks did not really produce a pitch pattern that I thought was acceptable. Then as I learned to play into the instrument I found that I could put the notes where they belonged,

Why am I writing so much about sonority rather than intonation? In my opinion it is not fair or realistic to try to make an assessment of the intonation pattenrs on one of these "leviathans" until one can actually fill the horn as it should be. I found that things were much less problematic and that the intonation problems were really not much different from any other horn I have had. If you have strong chops and good pitch centering ability, you should be able to play these quite well in tune.

[bort]

One thought... they are not inexpensive ($7,000+), so when the time comes, you may want to see what else you could buy used for the same price. I'm not saying the BMB is a good or bad tuba... just that it's a significant amount of money.

[Frank Ortega]

When I tried the 6/4 BBb at the DC conference a few years ago, I thought it was one the best horns I'd ever played, period. Great intonation, response, and tone. Far superior to the Holton 345's I've played. The only reason I don't own one is that I have a 1932 Martin Mammoth 4 valve with a fixed upright bell, which is a better instrument. But, this BMB BBb isn't far behind the Martin in my estimation.

I didn't care for the 6/4 CC. It seemed lacking in comparison.

[Lectron]

I play the 765

Have so for quite some time.

Have also played quite a few of these mythical predecessors in the world of 6/4s,
but THB I do not see the charming part of having to fight a tuba that size.

Good intonation, nice tone and excellent valves are just too appealing to me.

[Ken Crawford]

I play the 765

Have so for quite some time.

Have also played quite a few of these mythical predecessors in the world of 6/4s,
but THB I do not see the charming part of having to fight a tuba that size.

Good intonation, nice tone and excellent valves are just too appealing to me.

So are you saying the 765 has good intonation, nice tone and excellent valves or that it does not?

[Lectron]

I play the 765

Have so for quite some time.

Have also played quite a few of these mythical predecessors in the world of 6/4s,
but THB I do not see the charming part of having to fight a tuba that size.

Good intonation, nice tone and excellent valves are just too appealing to me.

So are you saying the 765 has good intonation, nice tone and excellent valves or that it does not?

Does

[iiipopes]

Like the purchase of any other tuba: can you try before you buy? It appears from reading the thread that there are good ones and not-so-good ones, again, just like any other model of tuba.

[Alex C]

If you're sure you want a BAT, you definitely need to play both BMB's, CC and BBb, before buying. If you go to Barth's Brass Blog you can see some of the professionals who are currently using either BMB bat.

As for buying a Holton, you should remember that the last Holton's were produced in the early 70's. You'll be buying a 40-60 year old tuba whose initial quality was nothing to write home about. If the instrument hasn't been rebuilt by a quality craftsman you could be in for a lot of surprises. (I say this as a Holton player for 30 years).

I do know the player Mark referred to (who sold a Thor to buy a BBb BMB and then sold it). He has been a CC player and didn't feel like adjusting to the BBb tuba overtone series was going to happen without a lot of work. Different strokes...

[chronolith]

I have the CC 5 valve BAT in my collection, for about a year now. I like it very much but let's not kid ourselves about what it really is: a BAT (and all of the stuff that goes with it).

I have played and owned a number of BATs over the years and (apart from a very nice Neptune) none of them have been issue-free or issue-light. Intonation and slotting is an issue with many or most BATs. I definitely recognize that some players may find this to be an issue with the BMB, but at least in my case the consistency of the issue always points back to a common factor, which was me. Learning to approach any large tuba takes with it the responsibility of mastering all that is different about it. BATs will reveal your weaknesses in air flow and embouchure firmness. No doubt about it. But the BMB horn will reward you for your diligence. When I first bought the horn it was fantastic (read new) and all was well. After I got used to it and allowed my bad habits to creep in I really wondered if I had made a mistake. But after working harder on my fundamentals and approaching this beast for what it is, I feel like I am getting nothing but good things out of it. I sold my Neptune to get the BMB and I don't have any regrets now that I feel like I understand what it means to be a BAT player.

In a sane world you find yourself buying a BAT because you either REALLY want one or you REALLY need one. I fall into the first category but have made good use of it and enjoy having the option. If you don't really need one then I suggest you find a good versatile 5/4 and call it a day.

I chatted with Tony Kniffen about these horns and he echoed what others here have said. He thought the BBb was a standout but had trouble getting the CC to slot in tune nicely. I had problems with it at first coming from a Neptune, which is about as plug and play as a BAT gets. I got to try out Tony's Nirschl, which feeds back very very nicely but has it's quirks as well (mostly mechanical).

The single most important thing I did to convince me to keep the BMB was move the leadpipe. I took mine into Dana Hofer and had him lower the leadpipe quite a bit. I also had him put on a tuning bit from a sousa to angle it back towards me and it made a huge difference. I can now sit the thing in my lap to play comfortably. I agree with others when if you look at the pictures, none of those players look like they are holding the thing comfortably. I am also considering cutting the 4th slide a little bit since my D and G below the staff tend to ride low with the slide all the way in.

As for mouthpieces I stick to my Bloke Orchestra or occasionally the Bloke Solo with and extended rim.

I use my BAT about 40% of the time in my orchestras and play the rest on 5/4 (depends on the rep). The BMB is a big tuba but not as heavy as some others, like a Willson 3050.

The BMB is a very good horn, but it is a BAT and you will have to work for it to get the magic out of it, or most any other BAT. A small shift in attitude and a focus on fundamentals will take you far.

But for flips sake, go out and test them side by side. Richard Barth is constantly moving about the country and is really good to work with so you should not have trouble getting access to one for a test.

[Jeff Keller]

BBb was far better than the CC when I tried them. I'm sure that each horn is going to be different. Try the horns out, different strokes for different folks.J

[J.c. Sherman]

I've played both, and - especially given the pricetag - they are exceptional. I was pleased with the BBb, but I wasn't as enamored as I thought I would be. However, I've heard they are continuing to improve.

I think the best value in the tuba world now might be a 4v, BAT CC. I can't find a real use for the 5th in the arrangement given (sorry Dick) unless it was cut to a flat 1/2 step. But the performance of this thing is awesome, and bystanders both times I played them (prototype and production models) wanted me to buy it immediately. I was stunned both times.

Although, the 3/4 (more like 15/16) is beyond awesome, and also a damn good value, the 4v BAT is on my wish list too... big time!

J.c.S.