pocket (travel) tuba as bass bone substitute

[Dubby]

In that case, why not a bass trumpet? More expensive probably. I think the travel tuba would be just fine.

[David Richoux]

Since I got my BBb Wessex and had a chance to use it in various situations, I think it might be a good bass trombone replacement. However, low end intonation and range is great, mid-to-high not so much.

Finding the best mouthpiece for it is still a work in progress. I am using my Loud 7 right now because it is what I use on my other regular tubas and Sousaphones, but that might not be the correct choice. I have also tried my previous go-to mouthpiece (Conn Helleberg) and it is a bit better on the highs, but not the low notes. The generic mouthpiece that came with the horn is fair but a bit soft for my lip. Still searching!

[Donn]

It depends on the situation, doesn't it? I mean, in an ensemble where the slide trombone sound (including articulation, intonation, etc.) really matters, something conical with valves isn't going to work out so well. Why do these guys want a bass trombone?

[David Richoux]

Most Bass bones have one or more valves anymore, so having a pocket tuba wouldn't be such a stretch. The bell on the Wessex BBb is about the same size as a typical bass bone (I have not measured them all, but it seems to be about in that range.) I have talked to some bone players who heard me playing mine - they say it does have somewhat of a bone quality tone.

Visually, it wouldn't work in a section (if that is important) and the bell direction is an issue that would be hard to fix without a good mic and amplification.

[imperialbari]

The Wessex tiny travel tuba in F/Eb has been discontinued and isn’t listed any longer on the Wessex site.

Klaus

[swillafew]

You need the biggest mouthpiece that will fit onto the horn you can borrow or whatever.
My tool is a Bach 2G on a .547 tenor. It works great. Just apply air.

[Donn]

Most Bass bones have one or more valves anymore, so having a pocket tuba wouldn't be such a stretch.

For me that doesn't really add up. Yes, a bass trombone normally has at least an F valve, but it's used in a different way. Sort of a register shift, where from one note to the next most of the time it's still a slide change - and with different slide positions learned for each valve combination. A very skilled player could theoretically do the same thing on "slide tuba", but here you'd need to pull or push the slide and operate the valve at the same time, where the bass trombone player is often just working the slide. Not that this necessarily matters in the present case.

[The Big Ben]

some guys are wanting me to play bass bone in their little jazz band, but i no longer have one. my slide technique is GONE!!!

Cimbasso ala Bloke?

[opus37]

I have a Wessex Bubbie (in Eb and F). It does have a bass trombone sound to it, but the range is good to about an Eb above the staff. If you are going higher you may not be happy. You will have the very low Eb if you need it however. The small horns are fun to play and do attract attention. On the other hand, these small horns have significant back pressure. They are not loud, so if you really need to be heard, you'll need a mike. Typically there is a moisture control problem. You'll be emptying the spit valve more that a conventional tuba. Will a mini Tuba work for you? Likely yes. I would suggest typing one before you jump into it. They are a different animal.

[DaTweeka]

Again (yeah...nutty concept, but...) a 4-valve compensating marching baritone (probably with a main slide finger ring) would probably be the ideal "substitute" for a bass trombone. The only drawback would be supporting the weight.

Amen.
I'd rather go for a non-comp E valve for the fourth, though, and I know you've shown some ire for the comp system in the past. Speaking of ire, something about the marching baritone bugle rubs me the wrong way. Although it would present some considerable bore restrictions in the valve section, I was thinking using the bell section from a BBb contrabass bone could present some advantages; no tuning slide in your bottom bow, about the same bell size as the marching bari, but with an actual trombone flare, and the fingering versatility of a euph. Go for a 2+2 setup and you might be able to beat a comp system for speed, but it'd need a couple of triggers (one on G valve, one on main). I just can't settle on valves; go rotary and get closer to the bone sound, or go piston for the speed?...

Connor Jones

[MackBrass]

The travel Eb/f tuba will not give you the power or sound that a bass bone will. I will say that the upper register is great and I have been able to put out plenty of volume but when you get into the low end the back pressure is too great.

I agree with bloke that a comp euph is the way to go. Another suggestion from me would be the large oval tenor tuba by Jinbao as they have a great sound and play well in tune. Upright tenor tubas are hard to come by but if you do come across one then I would grab it. Last choice is the marching euph or baritone.

I have a 4 valve cerveny contra bass bone in f that would work well but these are air hogs. Sometimes they do show up on ebay but they do sound just like a real bass bone. On the cervany I have, I took a bell from a french horn and put it on so its larger and you dont have to hold the horn straight out. It has a very different look but puts out some serious sound.

[iiipopes]

When I was in high school, my high school could not afford a bass bone, and none of the parents of bone players were in a position to purchase one, either. We used a King souzy for the 5th bone/bass bone parts in jazz band. It's what we had.

Let's see -
bloke suggested a fully chromatic 4 or 5 valve baritone horn;
French C tuba;
Any 3/4 BBb, CC, or Eb tuba that has a .630 or smaller bore, and use a shallow cup mouthpiece to keep the tone bright;
Some of the other French tubas, like an old Courtois or Couesenon, if you can find one with passable intonation;
Cimbasso, of whatever pitch or configuration;
Valve trombone, if you can find one that isn't just a 3-valved version of a tenor with a .490 to .520 bore.

and probably almost anything else in the general category of similar instruments.

[Donn]

Another suggestion from me would be the large oval tenor tuba by Jinbao as they have a great sound and play well in tune.

I've seen that instrument serve as the bass for ... some German/Austrian folk dance, could be Tyrolean or something.

I have a 4 valve cerveny contra bass bone in f that would work well but these are air hogs.

This is a 14.2mm / .560in bore 576 model? Or the 18.2mm / .717in 652 (web site shows only a 5 valve version, 652-5PX)?

[David Richoux]

When I was in high school, my high school could not afford a bass bone, and none of the parents of bone players were in a position to purchase one, either. We used a King souzy for the 5th bone/bass bone parts in jazz band. It's what we had.

Let's see -
bloke suggested a fully chromatic 4 or 5 valve baritone horn;
French C tuba;
Any 3/4 BBb, CC, or Eb tuba that has a .630 or smaller bore, and use a shallow cup mouthpiece to keep the tone bright;
snip

Good luck finding a French C (6 valve) Tuba for sale anywhere in the world!
Much easier would be finding a Yamaha BBb 103 (front valve.) It has plenty of punch, it is easy to hold and play. Only a slight problem with "water" buildup.

I had to learn how to play T-bone during the summer between junior and senior year to play in the newly formed stage band at my high school - no tuba or Sousaphone wanted. We got it going for a few weeks when the teacher booked us for the West Coast stage band festival in Reno! We did OK, but a band from Santa Barbara did a Don Ellis chart in 19 that totally blew everybody else away... Fall 1967.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

CIMBASSO!

Bb bass trombones are (more often than many realize) asked to play well up into the "high" trombone range...i.e. A, Bb, etc...

As far as cimbasso in a jazz band setting, what Bloke says is (of course) true about the high register, but my observations have also been (with the particular charts that we were playing) that when the bass trombone is asked to play in the upper register, it is usually in unison with the other trombones, so if you are using a cimbasso, you can really back off a little.

[bort]

I've heard these are heavy to hold, but it seems like it would fit the bill:

[MackBrass]

I've heard these are heavy to hold, but it seems like it would fit the bill:

this is the model I have but I put a french horn bell on it. Yes they are heavy to hold.

[michael_glenn]

I make due playing bass bone by playing on a cheap Chinese Bb tenor trombone with an F attachment. I then use the Roger Bobo TT mouthpiece to make it a bit more bass-like. It works for me, and my jazz instructor is happy with it.
If I had an F cimbasso, that would probably be my first choice. However, $3k for a cimbasso is much more expensive than what I paid ($250) for trombone and mouthpiece.

[Donn]

A modest suggestion for tuba players thinking about a bass trombone double -

Get an inexpensive used single rotor model with a valve that can be pulled to E. Tune it to E, and leave it there. Trombone players are really used to having an F valve, but if you aren't really a trombone player, it won't bother you so much.

With an E valve, you can get C below the staff with no problem, and at least sort of fake B. And the instrument is lighter, cheaper and requires you to learn only two sets of slide positions. An Eb valve would be even better, but that would have to be custom made.

I'm not speaking as any kind of expert - haven't played bass trombone in front of a real audience, and may never have any need to. I therefore offer this advice free of charge.

[Bob Kolada]

I think this could be an idea for some of the Chinese import/design companies. I've tried a lot of stuff as a valved replacement for a bass trombone and nothing really works as a direct replacement, but a bass trombone bell section with a euph valve section could probably do a serviceable job; kind of a tenor cimbasso.

OP, I have an instrument that might work if you're only playing low bass trombone parts. It's an upright 3 valve Eb bass trombone with a long main slide behind the top bow. It's not perfect but it's a lot cheaper than even a Chinese cimbasso. You could also pick up an old marching trombone or something for higher parts and be able to cover just about anything you'd see.