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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby imperialbari » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:08 am

mctuba1 wrote:First thing, I would be careful of using synthetic oils as they will leave a residue on the valve and inside the casing. Over time the valve will get sluggesh and can be a pain to clean out properly.

Tom


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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby MartyNeilan » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:09 am

balchb wrote:Good question - and probably ignorance on my part with being unaware of the 3-year defect guarantee. Had I known that, I probably would have thought twice before a full dismantle/cleaning. I think it was Kiltie Tuba that first mentioned it on the thread... my mistake.


Good, you are learning fast. Remember, it is always someone else's fault, even if they give sound advice based on the limited facts available.
For your final lesson, repeat after me ten times:
"It is never my fault, it is never my fault..."

:|
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby balchb » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:13 am

MartyNeilan wrote:
balchb wrote:Good question - and probably ignorance on my part with being unaware of the 3-year defect guarantee. Had I known that, I probably would have thought twice before a full dismantle/cleaning. I think it was Kiltie Tuba that first mentioned it on the thread... my mistake.


Good, you are learning fast. Remember, it is always someone else's fault, even if they give sound advice based on the limited facts available.
For your final lesson, repeat after me ten times:
"It is never my fault, it is never my fault..."

:|


Thank you for that completely unnecessary post.

mctuba1 wrote:First thing, I would be careful of using synthetic oils as they will leave a residue on the valve and inside the casing. Over time the valve will get sluggesh and can be a pain to clean out properly.

Tom


I appreciate your thoughts, Tom.
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby KiltieTuba » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:46 am

I think we could do with no more replies from the OP until the matter is solved by Wessex Tubas as his tuba is still under the "3 year warranty"...
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby bisontuba » Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:20 am

imperialbari wrote:
mctuba1 wrote:First thing, I would be careful of using synthetic oils as they will leave a residue on the valve and inside the casing. Over time the valve will get sluggesh and can be a pain to clean out properly.

Tom


+1


Huge Big +1.... Since I stopped using synthetic oils & grease months ago and went back to conventional oils and regular grease, all my horns have no more 'gunk' inside the valves casings or slides and the valves & slides more freely.......
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby chronolith » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:01 pm

I can say from experience that Jonathan will get this sorted out given the chance. He and Andy have taken very good care of me in the past and he has access to considerable resources to do so. His products are maturing very nicely and his 3 year warranty against defect I think is quite generous given how responsive he is on support issues.

I can also say from experience that the rotary valves on these horns can be somewhat frustrating when first getting the horn set up. These issues are known to Jonathan and he is taking positive steps to refine them each generation. But I can certainly understand the OP's frustrations. I brought mine into about the best repair resource you can get and came out with a list of suggestions for future modifications which I sent back to Jonathan for his notes. Jonathan has been very receptive of such input and I like the fact that we can participate in the maturation process.

Part of finding happiness on TubeNet means sifting out the valuable details and discarding the anger baiting and occasionally brilliant humor that you will find here.
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby PMeuph » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:00 pm

You know, 40 grit sandpaper in a belt sander will take out any out of round spots on that valve... :twisted:

___

With my Jinbao bass bone, the rotors were bad when I got it. I cleaned them, oiled them and then tried again they still stuck. I rebent one of the linkages slightly and that helped. Finally, I coated the valve in Brasso, stuck it in the casing and spun it about 10 times, I then degreased and cleaned a couple times and the valves now work fine.
I suspect it might have been a small burr on the sharp edge of the ports on the valve itself....

A white (staedtler) eraser would have probably been abrasive enough to remove the burr....

↑ Probably voids your warranty...
______

How does it spin in the casing when not attached to the linkage? How does it spin on just the back bearing? Or just the front bearing? Where does it Catch, have you tried looking in that position to see if there are visible spots of catching? Is there lateral play, vertical play? Was the third slide bumped against something at some point?
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby balchb » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:07 pm

PMeuph wrote:You know, 40 grit sandpaper in a belt sander will take out any out of round spots on that valve... :twisted:

___

With my Jinbao bass bone, the rotors were bad when I got it. I cleaned them, oiled them and then tried again they still stuck. I rebent one of the linkages slightly and that helped. Finally, I coated the valve in Brasso, stuck it in the casing and spun it about 10 times, I then degreased and cleaned a couple times and the valves now work fine.
I suspect it might have been a small burr on the sharp edge of the ports on the valve itself....

A white (staedtler) eraser would have probably been abrasive enough to remove the burr....

↑ Probably voids your warranty...
______

How does it spin in the casing when not attached to the linkage? How does it spin on just the back bearing? Or just the front bearing? Where does it Catch, have you tried looking in that position to see if there are visible spots of catching? Is there lateral play, vertical play? Was the third slide bumped against something at some point?


I'm pretty sure that would void the warranty :wink:

I think I put on the back plate before checking to see if it was the front bearing catching. Changing the angle of the horn does alter the valve's performance.

KiltieTuba wrote:I think we could do with no more replies from the OP until the matter is solved by Wessex Tubas as his tuba is still under the "3 year warranty"...


The matter is being resolved now. Thank you for the helpful comments. Thank you Andy and Jonathan for your help and great customer service.
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby Mark Finley » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:25 pm

Little jealous that you live so close. To be able to go there and try out a horn in person us a luxury most of us don't have
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby balchb » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:06 pm

58mark wrote:Little jealous that you live so close. To be able to go there and try out a horn in person us a luxury most of us don't have


I hope to go there more - the Luzern BBb is a great horn, and I really want to try out the sousaphones. If I had the money right now, I'd probably seriously consider the compensating euphonium as well.

The current tuba professor at a university in the Grand Rapids area recommended Wessex, and yes, it's great that he was right next door!
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby Travis99079 » Tue May 16, 2017 9:41 pm

Had this problem with my Mack about a month after I got it. Blue Juice worked for me. I ran warm water through the horn to get out the old stuff and Blue Juice became all I used. In about 2 weeks, everything cleared up and it's been good ever since.
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby PaulMaybery » Tue May 16, 2017 10:17 pm

Most of the new "imports" need a cleaning and break in-period. Cleaning is primary.
Actually the chinese machining is quite good, all things considered. But I have found even with the brand new editions there is still black residue that migrates onto the rotors, bearings and pistons along with some of the tuning slides. A careful cleaning usually does the trick. Granted it should be perfect when we get them, but hey, even the pricey euro horns still need a "set-up" from a great tech.
Though I have also observed that over the past 20 plus or so years that the euros have gotten a bit more fastidious in that department. Perhaps it's the competition.
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby bloke » Tue May 16, 2017 10:48 pm

curious:

Was the carton still factory sealed (original tape never cut open) when the instrument arrived?

I sell another make of import instruments.
I don't sell a ton of them...I don't advertise...they cost a bit more...the selection is more concise.
One thing that I dislike doing (though I'm forced to, occasionally) is to "drop ship" instruments from the warehouse, rather than being able to crack the carton open myself and have a look.
I see that Tom has posted. He has his own warehouse and cracks open all of his cartons, pulls each one out, and takes each one for a test drive. He also has some repair/servicing skills, and can either - when they occasionally exist - address minor issues or (if he can't address them himself) he gets someone else to address them prior to shipping them out...so yeah, every carton received from Tom has been re-taped.
It's really good to do that regardless of whether than instrument was manufactured at the lowest-wholesale-cost Chinese factory, or at the most exclusive European factory.

That having all been said...yeah, give the seller a chance to address the issue first, rather than - right off the bat - throwing it out to us TNFJ genie-us's. All we can do is type (mostly: stupid) crap. :|
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby mctuba1 » Wed May 17, 2017 12:52 am

balchb wrote:
Neptune wrote:I am sorry to hear of this valve sticking issue. I think it best if the tuba is returned to Andy and we will get professionally checked out and resolved. The tuba cannot have been sitting for long, as has only just arrived from factory.


I'm waiting for his reply to my email.

imperialbari wrote:Which slide grease is dissolved by the oil run down slide tubes?

Are the bottom plates put back on so the bearings are perfectly aligned?

Do the rotors spin freely before the stop arms are mounted?

If the alignments are as they should be, this soundd like too thick and uneven lubrication in the form of grease polluting the oil.

Klaus


I'm using the exact lubricants Andy recommended - Super Lube for the slides, Yamaha synthetic rotor for the spindle bearings and Hetman #12 down the lead pipe and I did some down the slide tubes after cleaning. The behavior of the valve is virtually unchanged.

First, stop using that synthetic stuff and use either blue juice or some other basic oil. Synthetic oils do last longer but there is a trade off, "sluggish valves that need to be pulled and cleaned".

Next, when oiling down the slides, be sure not to let the oil touch the slide tubes as it will wash the grease into the valve.

Lastly, hetman #12 is way too thick for a new tuba and in my opinion way too thick for any tuba. I would use it on the bearings but not the inside.
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby Ulli » Wed May 17, 2017 4:43 am

Sticky rotors: I have the same problem with my Wessex Mahler. Terrible. Tested many valve oils- without success.
The rotors get a black tarnish.
But 400 sandpaper is my friend- to use often- often- often...
After any length of times it becomes better.
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby Wyvern » Wed May 17, 2017 7:00 am

May I point out for the original post is from three years ago! This issue has long since been resolved with original poster.

Regarding post by bloke. Every single tuba is carefully checked and play-tested at factory and then again before shipping.

Although still not perfect (on my agenda for June visit), internal cleaning of Instruments at factory has considerably improved during the last three years with ultrasonic cleaning now being used (implemented about a year ago)

BTW All new Wessex Mahler are now fitted with removable Z valves with which we have to date had no problems with sticking
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby Mark Finley » Wed May 17, 2017 7:02 am

Ulli wrote:Sticky rotors: I have the same problem with my Wessex Mahler. Terrible. Tested many valve oils- without success.
The rotors get a black tarnish.
But 400 sandpaper is my friend- to use often- often- often...
After any length of times it becomes better.


How old is your Mahler?
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby Ulli » Wed May 17, 2017 9:54 am

58mark wrote:How old is your Mahler?


May 2015, with Z valves.
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby Wyvern » Wed May 17, 2017 10:48 am

Ulli wrote:
58mark wrote:How old is your Mahler?


May 2015, with Z valves.

That's a new one on me. Are you sure they are Z valves? I have had multiple tubas with such valves several months in the showroom with irregular playing and never once has a valve stuck.

If they are Z valves, then I can only think of some chemical reaction causing black deposit (sugar in drink?), but am no chemist to diagnose.
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Re: Wessex CC "Mahler" valves sticky

Postby Ulli » Wed May 17, 2017 4:41 pm

Wyvern wrote:That's a new one on me. Are you sure they are Z valves? I have had multiple tubas with such valves several months in the showroom with irregular playing and never once has a valve stuck.

If they are Z valves, then I can only think of some chemical reaction causing black deposit (sugar in drink?), but am no chemist to diagnose.


On 24.05.2015 um 10:13 you wrote:
If that is correct, the backplate is only a friction fit and just needs
tightly tapping in to hold. As your tuba is fitted with Wessex Z valves,
undo screw in side, disconnect rotor mechanism from top and lift out
valve to refit back-plate. You might want to also lift out the slow
working rotors to clean and lubricate. The Z valves are to make rotary
maintenance easy.

Best Regards,
Jonathan

So I think, it are Z valves, and I ask you on 4. Jul. 2015 to send to me the missing small screw in side of one casing- in vain until today.
And No: I only drink water.
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