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UncleBeer wrote:

balchb wrote: I came here to get help

And why not go directly to the retailer with your concerns, instead of airing them in public? Jonathan's get a sterling reputation for making things right, when that's what the customer's after.

Good question - and probably ignorance on my part with being unaware of the 3-year defect guarantee. Had I known that, I probably would have thought twice before a full dismantle/cleaning. I think it was Kiltie Tuba that first mentioned it on the thread... my mistake.

I never intended for this to be a public slam on Wessex. I thought I was outside of a 7-day/30-day risk-free trial (again, should have checked). In fact, I mentioned being quite pleased with the instrument, just frustrated with the valve. I've promoted this brand to numerous band directors in my area and I'll very likely buy from them in the future. The BBb "Luzern" was a GREAT horn when I tried it as was a bass bone. Andy was very courteous and answered the many questions I had.

My sincere apology to Jonathan and Andy if I've over-stepped any boundary or gave a bad impression on Wessex... that was definitely not my intent.

Nobody has stepped on my toes. I guess you get what you pay for when you come to the TNFJ for your advice.

the elephant wrote:This is better entertainment than network television. Oh, wait...

+1

First thing, I would be careful of using synthetic oils as they will leave a residue on the valve and inside the casing. Over time the valve will get sluggesh and can be a pain to clean out properly.

Tom

mctuba1 wrote:First thing, I would be careful of using synthetic oils as they will leave a residue on the valve and inside the casing. Over time the valve will get sluggesh and can be a pain to clean out properly.

Tom

+1

balchb wrote:Good question - and probably ignorance on my part with being unaware of the 3-year defect guarantee. Had I known that, I probably would have thought twice before a full dismantle/cleaning. I think it was Kiltie Tuba that first mentioned it on the thread... my mistake.

Good, you are learning fast. Remember, it is always someone else's fault, even if they give sound advice based on the limited facts available.
For your final lesson, repeat after me ten times:
"It is never my fault, it is never my fault..."

MartyNeilan wrote:

balchb wrote:Good question - and probably ignorance on my part with being unaware of the 3-year defect guarantee. Had I known that, I probably would have thought twice before a full dismantle/cleaning. I think it was Kiltie Tuba that first mentioned it on the thread... my mistake.

Good, you are learning fast. Remember, it is always someone else's fault, even if they give sound advice based on the limited facts available.
For your final lesson, repeat after me ten times:
"It is never my fault, it is never my fault..."

Thank you for that completely unnecessary post.

mctuba1 wrote:First thing, I would be careful of using synthetic oils as they will leave a residue on the valve and inside the casing. Over time the valve will get sluggesh and can be a pain to clean out properly.

Tom

I appreciate your thoughts, Tom.

imperialbari wrote:

mctuba1 wrote:First thing, I would be careful of using synthetic oils as they will leave a residue on the valve and inside the casing. Over time the valve will get sluggesh and can be a pain to clean out properly.

Tom

+1

Huge Big +1.... Since I stopped using synthetic oils & grease months ago and went back to conventional oils and regular grease, all my horns have no more 'gunk' inside the valves casings or slides and the valves & slides more freely.......
Mark

I can say from experience that Jonathan will get this sorted out given the chance. He and Andy have taken very good care of me in the past and he has access to considerable resources to do so. His products are maturing very nicely and his 3 year warranty against defect I think is quite generous given how responsive he is on support issues.

I can also say from experience that the rotary valves on these horns can be somewhat frustrating when first getting the horn set up. These issues are known to Jonathan and he is taking positive steps to refine them each generation. But I can certainly understand the OP's frustrations. I brought mine into about the best repair resource you can get and came out with a list of suggestions for future modifications which I sent back to Jonathan for his notes. Jonathan has been very receptive of such input and I like the fact that we can participate in the maturation process.

Part of finding happiness on TubeNet means sifting out the valuable details and discarding the anger baiting and occasionally brilliant humor that you will find here.

You know, 40 grit sandpaper in a belt sander will take out any out of round spots on that valve...

___

With my Jinbao bass bone, the rotors were bad when I got it. I cleaned them, oiled them and then tried again they still stuck. I rebent one of the linkages slightly and that helped. Finally, I coated the valve in Brasso, stuck it in the casing and spun it about 10 times, I then degreased and cleaned a couple times and the valves now work fine.
I suspect it might have been a small burr on the sharp edge of the ports on the valve itself....

A white (staedtler) eraser would have probably been abrasive enough to remove the burr....

↑ Probably voids your warranty...
______

How does it spin in the casing when not attached to the linkage? How does it spin on just the back bearing? Or just the front bearing? Where does it Catch, have you tried looking in that position to see if there are visible spots of catching? Is there lateral play, vertical play? Was the third slide bumped against something at some point?

PMeuph wrote:You know, 40 grit sandpaper in a belt sander will take out any out of round spots on that valve...

___

With my Jinbao bass bone, the rotors were bad when I got it. I cleaned them, oiled them and then tried again they still stuck. I rebent one of the linkages slightly and that helped. Finally, I coated the valve in Brasso, stuck it in the casing and spun it about 10 times, I then degreased and cleaned a couple times and the valves now work fine.
I suspect it might have been a small burr on the sharp edge of the ports on the valve itself....

A white (staedtler) eraser would have probably been abrasive enough to remove the burr....

↑ Probably voids your warranty...
______

How does it spin in the casing when not attached to the linkage? How does it spin on just the back bearing? Or just the front bearing? Where does it Catch, have you tried looking in that position to see if there are visible spots of catching? Is there lateral play, vertical play? Was the third slide bumped against something at some point?

I'm pretty sure that would void the warranty

I think I put on the back plate before checking to see if it was the front bearing catching. Changing the angle of the horn does alter the valve's performance.

KiltieTuba wrote:I think we could do with no more replies from the OP until the matter is solved by Wessex Tubas as his tuba is still under the "3 year warranty"...

The matter is being resolved now. Thank you for the helpful comments. Thank you Andy and Jonathan for your help and great customer service.

58mark wrote:Little jealous that you live so close. To be able to go there and try out a horn in person us a luxury most of us don't have

I hope to go there more - the Luzern BBb is a great horn, and I really want to try out the sousaphones. If I had the money right now, I'd probably seriously consider the compensating euphonium as well.

The current tuba professor at a university in the Grand Rapids area recommended Wessex, and yes, it's great that he was right next door!

Had this problem with my Mack about a month after I got it. Blue Juice worked for me. I ran warm water through the horn to get out the old stuff and Blue Juice became all I used. In about 2 weeks, everything cleared up and it's been good ever since.

Most of the new "imports" need a cleaning and break in-period. Cleaning is primary.
Actually the chinese machining is quite good, all things considered. But I have found even with the brand new editions there is still black residue that migrates onto the rotors, bearings and pistons along with some of the tuning slides. A careful cleaning usually does the trick. Granted it should be perfect when we get them, but hey, even the pricey euro horns still need a "set-up" from a great tech.
Though I have also observed that over the past 20 plus or so years that the euros have gotten a bit more fastidious in that department. Perhaps it's the competition.
Paul (who tries to support the import tuba industry that at the very least is producing instruments that otherwise would not be available) Maybery

balchb wrote:

Neptune wrote:I am sorry to hear of this valve sticking issue. I think it best if the tuba is returned to Andy and we will get professionally checked out and resolved. The tuba cannot have been sitting for long, as has only just arrived from factory.

I'm waiting for his reply to my email.

imperialbari wrote:Which slide grease is dissolved by the oil run down slide tubes?

Are the bottom plates put back on so the bearings are perfectly aligned?

Do the rotors spin freely before the stop arms are mounted?

If the alignments are as they should be, this soundd like too thick and uneven lubrication in the form of grease polluting the oil.

Klaus

I'm using the exact lubricants Andy recommended - Super Lube for the slides, Yamaha synthetic rotor for the spindle bearings and Hetman #12 down the lead pipe and I did some down the slide tubes after cleaning. The behavior of the valve is virtually unchanged.

First, stop using that synthetic stuff and use either blue juice or some other basic oil. Synthetic oils do last longer but there is a trade off, "sluggish valves that need to be pulled and cleaned".

Next, when oiling down the slides, be sure not to let the oil touch the slide tubes as it will wash the grease into the valve.

Lastly, hetman #12 is way too thick for a new tuba and in my opinion way too thick for any tuba. I would use it on the bearings but not the inside.

Sticky rotors: I have the same problem with my Wessex Mahler. Terrible. Tested many valve oils- without success.
The rotors get a black tarnish.
But 400 sandpaper is my friend- to use often- often- often...
After any length of times it becomes better.

May I point out for the original post is from three years ago! This issue has long since been resolved with original poster.

Regarding post by bloke. Every single tuba is carefully checked and play-tested at factory and then again before shipping.

Although still not perfect (on my agenda for June visit), internal cleaning of Instruments at factory has considerably improved during the last three years with ultrasonic cleaning now being used (implemented about a year ago)

BTW All new Wessex Mahler are now fitted with removable Z valves with which we have to date had no problems with sticking

58mark wrote:How old is your Mahler?

May 2015, with Z valves.

Ulli wrote:

58mark wrote:How old is your Mahler?

May 2015, with Z valves.

That's a new one on me. Are you sure they are Z valves? I have had multiple tubas with such valves several months in the showroom with irregular playing and never once has a valve stuck.

If they are Z valves, then I can only think of some chemical reaction causing black deposit (sugar in drink?), but am no chemist to diagnose.

Wyvern wrote:That's a new one on me. Are you sure they are Z valves? I have had multiple tubas with such valves several months in the showroom with irregular playing and never once has a valve stuck.

If they are Z valves, then I can only think of some chemical reaction causing black deposit (sugar in drink?), but am no chemist to diagnose.

On 24.05.2015 um 10:13 you wrote:
If that is correct, the backplate is only a friction fit and just needs
tightly tapping in to hold. As your tuba is fitted with Wessex Z valves,
undo screw in side, disconnect rotor mechanism from top and lift out
valve to refit back-plate. You might want to also lift out the slow
working rotors to clean and lubricate. The Z valves are to make rotary
maintenance easy.

Best Regards,
Jonathan

So I think, it are Z valves, and I ask you on 4. Jul. 2015 to send to me the missing small screw in side of one casing- in vain until today.
And No: I only drink water.