Changing out a "Besson" receiver

[jeopardymaster]

Have any of you guys ever converted an old Besson euphonium from European receiver to large bore US receiver? With what result? Is that a big deal?

[KenS]

I know it is not a Euph, but Dan Oberloh made a new receiver, from bar stock for my B&H Eb Imperial. Really opened the sound up. It was a great change.

[modelerdc]

I had the intermediate sized Mpc reciever changed on my old besson euphonium to the more modern bass trombone sized one. After the change the horn did not respond as well and intonation problems were worse, the high f-e-e flat becoming very sharp. Fortunately I keep the old parts, had it changed back. Btw the best Mpc I ever found for this horn, was the Dennis wick 4AM, which worked quite well, better imho than the 51d.

[Dan Schultz]

.... This reminds me of how people claim that they do not like stainless steel mouthpiece vs. silver plated brass mouthpieces...when they've never played, back-to-back (as there are no two such mouthpieces), a silver plated brass mouthpiece and a stainless steel mouthpiece with identical interior dimensions and identical rim shapes.

+1. There is no such thing as EXACTLY THE SAME.

[Lee Stofer]

If one happens to have access to a Yamaha receiver of the desired size, it will not only fit the older Besson, it even looks like the original Besson receiver on the outside (because guess who Yamaha copied to make theirs in the first place?!).

[Daniel C. Oberloh]

What joe said but...I have tooling for reaming and converting the original to a large shank receiver. So no replacement is needed. I just alter the original and put it back on, no big deal.


Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
http://www.oberloh.com" target="_blank

[modelerdc]

I see that my post has been misunderstood. I was able to play my besson euphonium with a wick 4am when it had the intermediate shank and with a 4al with the large shank. That's about as close in mouthpieces but of different shanks as you are going to get. As described in my earlier post response and intonation were better with the intermediate shank. The variable is that the local shop which did the conversion, might not have done the best possible adaption of the old lead pipe with the new reciever. However my experience with the newer Bessons that came from the factory with a large shank was that they were not as in tune as the older ones, and I recall that that this was a common feeling Among players after 1974 when the large shank became standard. Yes, in theory it's possible to adapt the same Mpc so that in different shank sizes it should play the same. But the devil is in the details, so that what's easily done in theory may be imperfectly done in practice.
The 51d--- really another topic, I only mentioned it because I feel that the wicks are a better overall match, in either shank size . The story I recall about the 51d is, and if anyone knows more please chime in! But the story I recall is that it was developed to help with the intonation problems of the Besson, back when they were all intermediate shanks. The deep 1 1/2G depth cup helps bring down the pitch of the F-E-E flat above the staff, while giving a full sound on a not very big rim diameter. A cup this deep can make the higher notes flat, so the original intermediate shank 51Ds fit a little further into the leadpipe, so that the notes above F are easier to keep up on pitch. I've always found the 51d overly deep for the rim size, and players with euphoniums that do not have the same into intonational tendencies might benefit from a Mpc with a larger rim diameter but not always as deep a cup. Also a criticism sometimes made of the American school of euphonium playing is that even though the sound is sweet, it always stays the same at different dynamic levels, and that this monotone effect is less interesting than equipment that permits some character or brilliance to the sound when desired. Some of this may be due to conception of tone, some to the nature of the Bessons and their clones. But imho some is due to the 51d school of overly deep cups. Hard to color the tone when you're all the way at he dark end, the deep cup makes the high range hard but the small rim makes it hard to open up down low, but even players of modest skill sound fat in the middle octave. I think of the 51d the way many tuba players think of the 24aw.