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Hi, apologies for the novice question. I play the B flat tuba and need a copy of "The Real Book" to play with an informal jazz group at church. Question - which version should I buy?

In the Bass Clef version, the first song, Duke Ellington's African Flower, is written in G flat major. The first chord is E flat minor and the melody starts with an A flat. This is the same in the Treble Clef C version.

In the B flat version (written in treble clef), African Flower is in A flat major, the first chord is F, and melody starts with a B flat.

I don't think there is a B flat bass clef version.

Thanks! David

David Bender wrote:Hi, apologies for the novice question. I play the B flat tuba and need a copy of "The Real Book" to play with an informal jazz group at church. Question - which version should I buy?

In the Bass Clef version, the first song, Duke Ellington's African Flower, is written in G flat major. The first chord is E flat minor and the melody starts with an A flat. This is the same in the Treble Clef C version.

In the B flat version (written in treble clef), African Flower is in A flat major, the first chord is F, and melody starts with a B flat.

I don't think there is a B flat bass clef version.

Thanks! David

Depends on what you need -- do you normally read Bb-transposed treble clef (British brass band style) or concert-pitch bass clef (U.S. band & orchestra & pretty-much-everything-else standard)? Get the one that doesn't throw you off a whole step (either way) from the rest of the group.

Thanks for the responses. My experience is in reading concert pitch bass clef music. But I've also played piano, and don't think it will be difficult to learn to read treble clef, especially since the chords are written in. I just want to be sure I am playing in the same key as the rest of the band. So do I get the C version or the Bb version?

Agreeing with the guys above - buy the C book if you play tuba and piano!

Don't get me wrong - I'm not going to play piano in this group. But if I am getting the C book, why not get the bass clef version? And, just to confirm, if I play the notes as written in either C book using my B flat instrument, will my notes match the other players? See, I told you it was a novice question(s)...

If you play tuba from the C book - it will match the band (in theory) Treble or bass clef would be up to you. I, having played most of my jazz stuff on the trombone in bass clef, would go for that book and play the Bb tuba with "euphonium fingerings", thinking it down an octave. If reading concert pitch treble clef works, then go for that!

Thanks everyone for your help!

Treble should be fine. If you can get around well enough to keep up in a jazz group, the treble clef should be a minor concern. The book itself will be a lot more useful to you over the years, I expect. You can share with bass players, piano players, guitars players, flute, etc.

considering that the B flat book is transposed, everything is the same. Pitch is going to be identical, except for octaves.for your maximum growth as a musician, the C treble clef book would be best for you. From an easy standpoint, the bass clef bookwould work well.

the elephant wrote:Bass clef does not transpose, normally.

Comment not valid in the BeNeLux Countries and certain parts of France...Hence the "normally"....
______

To the OP, the first song in my Real Book, is "A Call for Demons." ..... Regardless, when a Bb transposed instrument reads a Bb parts it sounds a tone lower than written, and will be correct with a C part that is down a town....

Ironically, if it is a Bb trumpet and a Bb tuba playing the melody in octaves, even though the part will look different, and the written notes will be different, the valve combinations will be the same (Maybe some exceptions for different octaves) and the parts will sound the same.

When speaking to the aforementioned trumpet player, referring to oneself as playing a Bb instrument can lead to wrong assumptions. It certainly shouldn't, but some friends of mine really struggle with that. Call your horn "a tuba" and save a lot of grief.

Oh no, don't dodge that discussion! It can be loads of fun!

We must have the same friends

You ain't gonna play the melody on tuba anyways, so it don't make no diff what octave its written in.

Oh? Not going to play the melody? Why not? I do it a lot. .. and there are plenty others who do it more frequently and much better than I.

eupher61 wrote:Oh? Not going to play the melody? Why not? I do it a lot. .. and there are plenty others who do it more frequently and much better than I.

The Tuba or bass in a jazz group should play a Bass Line, this normally will be straight 1/4 notes based on the chord structure. You'll want to play primarily the chord tones with passing tones added in to make it more interesting. The Tuba will just about never play the melody in a normal jazz combo setting. Think similar to what your left hand does on the piano. Listen to what the bass player of some pro Jazz groups are doing and you'll get the idea. This is going to take a little bit of knowledge about music theory at least what notes are included in the chords as shown on the lead sheets.

If you are also a piano player I would definitely recommend the C Treble clef book since you'll be reading the chord progressions mostly on the tuba the Bass clef /Treble clef isn't an issue. I'm sure you'll someday want to try these tunes on piano so the Treble clef C book will be better for that.

To get good at jazz listen to as many good players as you can, and imitate what they are doing to start with. As time goes on you'll develop your own style.

Radar wrote:

eupher61 wrote:Oh? Not going to play the melody? Why not? I do it a lot. .. and there are plenty others who do it more frequently and much better than I.

The Tuba or bass in a jazz group should play a Bass Line, this normally will be straight 1/4 notes based on the chord structure. You'll want to play primarily the chord tones with passing tones added in to make it more interesting. The Tuba will just about never play the melody in a normal jazz combo setting.

Tell that to Howard Johnson. Sam Pilafian. Bob Stewart. Red Callander (RIP). Carl Kleinstuber. Or me. Or any number of other players.

You'll be laughed out of the room.

Radar wrote:Think similar to what your left hand does on the piano. Listen to what the bass player of some pro Jazz groups are doing and you'll get the idea. This is going to take a little bit of knowledge about music theory at least what notes are included in the chords as shown on the lead sheets.

Even if you do resort to playing just a bass line, if you play nothing but straight quarter notes, and primarily chord tones, the feel will be lost. Yes, listen to jazz bass players; you'll understand.

The OP identified himself as a newbie to Jazz, my directions were meant more as a starting point than the ultimate goal. I never said that bass players never play melody I said it isn't the norm, I also said to start with the primary chord tones and add in passing tones. To list a bunch of professional players who play melody as advice to what a newbie jazz bass player should be working on in my opinion is equivalent to advising him to run before he's learned to walk. If he can learn to lay down a good solid walking bass line he will add more to his group than if he is just one more person playing the melody. I've played in many jazz ensembles over the years both as an electric bass guitarist, and as a trombonist so I've listened to and played with many good bass players outside of the occasional bass solo (and even during a solo) I rarely hear a bass player play the written melody from a fake book.

And, the OP did not self-identify as a newbie jazz player. "informal" and "new" are different things.

My comments, in order of posting, were rather obviously directed to 1) the OP, asking which book to use 2) to aqualung's comment about not playing melody 3) to Radar's comments. Since the last 2 quoted, the OP can be assured I wasn't addressing him directly.

the elephant wrote:

Radar wrote:The Tuba or bass in a jazz group should play a Bass Line, this normally will be straight 1/4 notes based on the chord structure. You'll want to play primarily the chord tones with passing tones added in to make it more interesting. The Tuba will just about never play the melody in a normal jazz combo setting.

This is what you wrote. You did not address that comment to the OP but to Steve. It is patently incorrect information. Thanks for contributing to the wealth of misinformation available on the Internet.

+1

For once, I'm n the same page as the Elephant...

Honestly, there isn't a music police that comes around and fines you for playing the melody on the tuba, heck, you could sing or dance too if you wanted.... Good performances are inspired and original, they don't have to follow staid traditions...

'To the OP: It's Jazz... play around, try everything you can musicall and then some...play everything as originally as you can.