TubeNet

Does anyone out there own *only* a BAT (piston or rotary)? I'm not talking that you own other horns but barely use them, I'm talking that you have 1 tuba, and its a 6/4. I believe I may be in that situation in the near future (don't ask... well, not quite yet, I want some general responses first if possible... 5-second version is that there is a 6/4 that I've wanted for a while, and could now have).

I know it kind of goes against the "rules", but realistically my playing is all in large bands and orchestras, and the size and weight would be to my advantage. Plus it would still fulfill my basic criteria for making a tuba purchase... Because I can, and because I want to.

For a long time owning a 6/4 only has seemed too impractical, but the more I considered it, the less crazy it sounded. In fairness, this could also be seen as trying to justify my decision. But in the end, there just aren't smaller tubas that make the same kind of sound, and that's just too hard to get past.

Any thoughts?

If you're thinking of selling the Rudy 4/4 please let me know...

But seriously, if you have the opportunity to get something you've wanted for a long time, I'd say go for it!

Based on your playing needs, it sounds like a reasonable thing to get said 6/4 to get the sound you want. I switched to a Rudy F because I just wasn't getting the sound I wanted from my 822 (and it would pair nicely with my Rudy 3/4), and I haven't looked back since. Sound is key!

Best of luck!

The vast majority of people won't care or even notice what tuba you play.they are all huge to everyone else.its a balance between what you enjoy and making the task easier.i only have the big wisemann right now.no problems.as soon as an f tuba tune comes along in the orchestra,I will get one.

I played a Holton CC for many years. At times I did also own F tubas, but for the many years, only the Holton.

I never found a job I couldn't do because I was playing a big tuba but there are times it wasn't the best choice. The sheer size of the instrument caused one conductor to give me "the hand" for three days of rehearsals and performance... on the Verdi "Requim" no less.

Less important, the size of the horn was occasionally difficult to handle in a crowded setting or in a pit, for example. A smaller CC or an F would have been a better choice.

For quintet work, I don't know if most people's concept of a quintet tuba is a BAT but there are groups that have used one, (Metropolitan BQ_- Dick Barth, Modern BQ - Lew Waldeck). It can be done, it's just different.

The response in the low register of most BAT's is not great. I sometimes allowed myself to accept less than I should have because I was too busy to spend hours a week concentrating on the low register response. No matter how good a BAT can be, the low not response will not match the responsiveness of a 4/4 tuba in that range in many instances.

The 4/4 or 5/4 horns don't make as much sound as a BAT but that is rarely a consideration unless you plan to replace one of the major orchestral players soon.

But... If the sound in your head is the sound made by a BAT, that's the horn you should play. One day, you'll get it out of your system.

Thanks guys!

Now that I have a few non-tuba-specific thoughts, I'll share more information. The 6/4 in question is a rotary Neptune. I've done my homework and have asked around here a bit too, and know what people generally think of it (solid horn, maybe not the "biggest" 6/4, and a pretty flexible horn for its size). As a few of you have mentioned, I will be playing in community (and college) bands, so a bit of extra "thud" will be nice. No quintet or small groups in the present or future.

Any new or changed opinions knowing this?

I own only a BAT ( a heavyweight one..) as upright tuba, and lately I mostly play in community bands. Most of the time as the only tuba player in 40-45 elements, due to the chronic lack of tuba players in bands in my area.. So even if my backache often tells me to switch to something smaller and lighter, I think I won't ever change it as it enables me to play with a good and "confortable" level of sound that blends well and fills the halls.
Then, as it has been said before, it just depends on the sound that you have in mind and you want to hear out of your horn...

bort wrote:Thanks guys!

Now that I have a few non-tuba-specific thoughts, I'll share more information. The 6/4 in question is a rotary Neptune. I've done my homework and have asked around here a bit too, and know what people generally think of it (solid horn, maybe not the "biggest" 6/4, and a pretty flexible horn for its size). As a few of you have mentioned, I will be playing in community (and college) bands, so a bit of extra "thud" will be nice. No quintet or small groups in the present or future.

Any new or changed opinions knowing this?

Hi-
If that is what you want, do it!
Mark

bort wrote:Plus it would still fulfill my basic criteria for making a tuba purchase... Because I can, and because I want to.

I like that!

I have to admit, that's not an original saying from me.

As for the rest of the comments, all appreciated, and thanks for the validation.

58mark wrote: It's responsive and quick in all registers, but still has a tone like God himself singing

I'm wondering how you obtained such inside information, Mark. I've heard some amazing tuba sounds, but never have I heard God sing. Now, you have me worried.

I had a chance to blow into a Neptune many years ago, and the experience has stayed with me. It just felt really, really good, big, powerful, pipe-organ-like. I don't see how you can go wrong with it.

I own/play only a 3/4, since I'm mostly playing solo stuff. I've often wondered, though, whether or not I've just fallen victim to conventional wisdom about that. I do love that Voice of God feel. Anybody out there do a lot of soloing/small ensemble playing on a BAT? How's that work out for you?

A guy with one horn will find a way to make it work.

I seem to often recall seeing Neptune tubas for sale with main tuning slide gadgets. I don't mean any offense to anyone, but while VERY VERY useful, the presence of such a gadget doesn't seem to say "extremely well in tune tuba" to me (not that many are).

I've played a rotary Neptune before and I liked it, but I bought a RM instead.

MikeMason wrote:The vast majority of people won't care or even notice what tuba you play.they are all huge to everyone else.its a balance between what you enjoy and making the task easier.i only have the big wisemann right now.no problems.as soon as an f tuba tune comes along in the orchestra,I will get one.

In a recent conversation with my wife, I happened to ask my wife how many tubas I have. Though I think they all look very different, her number was way smaller than the real number. Most of my tubas look the same to her.

58mark wrote: ...
Ironically enough, the Neptune is a tweaked and improved version of the 601 I mentioned previously, ....

Where'd you get this idea from?

I was BAT only for a long time (twenty years) and yeah you can cover everything, but there are times you will wish you had the exact tool for some gigs. Kind of like only having a crescent wrench to work on your car versus a complete set of appropriate sized wrenches.

Some of the non-musical things to think about:

You never get younger as you go through life and hauling a BAT around ALL the Time does get Old after awhile. They are harder to get in and out of cars, trains, planes, the bus and just that much more weight walking any long distance with it on your back. Plus you may have to drag the added weight of a playing stand along as well. The BAT will take up more room to store, the hard/soft cases are that much larger to store and you usually have more capital tied up in them.

I also wonder if you are going to be playing in a large tuba section if a BAT is overkill. While I still own mine I would say I use it maybe 15% of the time now.

One last comment from the sidelines: if memory serves me - in the last few years you have gone from Marzan - to 188 - to 4/4 RM - and maybe now to 6/4 Neptune - are you really sure this is what you hear in your head as the sound you want or are you just scratching the 7 month tuba itch?

KiltieTuba wrote:For a long time I only used my 345, now I use it and the EEb - both large instruments. Have had zero problems playing or getting gigs - it's the player not the instrument.

+ ∞

I (only) have a Kalison Pro 2000 and it pretty much does everything for me. I was a bit nervous that it would be too much for a quintet, but in the right room it is very balanced. It is perfect for both the orchestra and wind ensembles that i am in. I do wish i had a bass tuba some times, but I'm able to do the Gregson on it just fine.

tofu wrote:One last comment from the sidelines: if memory serves me - in the last few years you have gone from Marzan - to 188 - to 4/4 RM - and maybe now to 6/4 Neptune - are you really sure this is what you hear in your head as the sound you want or are you just scratching the 7 month tuba itch?

Fair enough, and to some level, you are correct. I'm very transparent about this stuff, and I'll admit, that I've switched around a LOT. With all fairness, I think that you know within the first few minutes if you want to *buy* a tuba, but it takes a few months to decide if you want to *keep* a tuba. If that kind of thing was more obvious during a play test, that would be nice. But sometimes, it's just not in the cards.

To back it up a bit, here is the progression of tubas I've owned:
VMI/MW-30
Miraphone 1291
Marzan 4/4
Miraphone 188
Rudy Meinl 4/4

Through the Miraphone 1291 and Marzan, I was trying to chase something down in my sound, and that ended up being the sound made by a rotary valve tuba. Through all of this, I've been chasing down a "larger" sound. That 188 was (is) an exceptional instrument... but I wanted something bigger. The Rudy 4/4 is also an exceptional instrument, but the more I play it, the less it seems bigger than the 188. That is, I thought the Rudy would be more of a step up in size from the 188 than it actually is.

Enter the Neptune... CLEARLY a large tuba, and clearly larger than anything else I've owned. I think that is the primary objective here -- to own something that is without a doubt larger than anything else I've owned. The 6/4 rotary tuba sound truly sticks in my mind.

As for the "not getting younger" comments... yes, you are right about that too. I turned 34 about 2 months ago, and although I still feel (and behave? ) half that age, I know you are right about the inevitablilities of aging, and there will come time when it's just completely impractical for me to have a 6/4 tuba. I guess then... why not do it now? Even if I "only" have 20 good years with it, I think that is worthwhile. Not to mention, I am moving out of NYC, and will no longer have to subway/walk to my gigs. That's a huge help.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone, this is a lot of great information!

I couldn't imagine ONLY owning a BAT. While one COULD use it in chamber music (IMHO), the sound would be just too broad. If you MAINLY do large band/orchestra playing, a BAT is fine. Never play solos? Yer ok. There is ALWAYS a tuba around you could borrow, should the need arise. For me, it is always about what is the proper SOUND for the given playing environment. While it is a matter of musical judgement and taste, I keep the BAT for only the largest band and orchestra works. If the cello and bass section gets reduced (like for pit work for instance) I use the 4/4. Happy hunting!!