TubeNet

I've played tuba now for 4 years, and have decided after two seasons of DCI that performance is what I want to focus on as a career (currently a music ed major). I'm looking to step up from my BBb Stagg 77 (which actually has been great), to some sort of CC professional model. I have an opportunity to play in a traveling brass ensemble, and also would like to get into a symphony some day. What sort of model/brand should I be looking for? Keep in mind I'm a college student who is poor. ANY feedback would be greatly appreciated! Currently playing on a perantucci 50 mouthpiece too.

Let me try and be a little more encouraging...

Make fundamentals the best they can possibly be on what you have and start to save up for a great used horn. You can sometimes land some good deals if you keep looking around. I've also used some student refund money (if you have that available) to pay towards my horn. Ask your applied professor also. They will usually have the inside scoop if anyone is selling. That's how I ended up with my 5/4 Rudy. If you want to play professionally, strive to sound the best on what you have until you're able to afford a horn of higher quality.

Marched drum corps myself! Best of luck to ya!

Thank-you ECUorchbound, that is helpful.

KiltieTuba, yes, I am a music education major, however I am trying to go TOWARDS a performance route now. I've recently just figured out that I like performing and private teaching a lot more than possibly becoming a school music teacher or band director. I have already taken all of my proficiency classes, and actually do play trumpet and trombone. I actually own my own Bb tuba, however, the reason for my question on a "professional" horn has to do with recent opinions of fellow tuba players and music majors who all told me that now is a good time to start looking into getting a CC tuba. Quote "if you're looking into playing past college you need to get one". I came on here to get some more insight on the subject. And I currently have a teacher, who is a star low brass player, but unfortunately not a tuba player. I live in an area where there are no professional tuba teachers. Hard to believe, I know, but this explains my ignorance on the subject. I'm fairly new to a lot of things in the tuba world. Drum corps really opened up a lot of different things to me, and many were surprised that I knew so little on some subjects on the instrument. I am looking into getting a masters in performance at a much better school than the one that I am at currently, but I'm just trying to work with what I've got. I see you're from Michigan, you probably aren't too far from me, do you teach college students? I really would like to get into a symphony orchestra one day, or at least be enlightened enough to get into the "paid to play" world like yourself.

[ Quote "if you're looking into playing past college you need to get one".

Well, I am more than 30 years past college, and I am playing quite a bit, and I have yet to get a CC horn. I think that bias towards CC and against BB horns often is very much over played. Unless you are doing a lot orchestra work and playing in lots of sharp keys, there is no reason that you "need" a CC horn. Even then, it doesn't mean you have to have a CC horn.

I am looking into getting a masters in performance at a much better school than the one that I am at currently, but I'm just trying to work with what I've got.

Again, I agree with Kiltie here and suggest that if you like your current horn, and can get along with it until you reach a point where you have a compelling reason to move the CC, then you can pull the trigger and you have all that time to wait for the right opportunity to come along.

Steve

If you are a music ed major, consider learning a woodwind instead. I did two degrees in music ed, and I had sold my tuba and bought a trumpet and a flute by the time I hit the market after the second degree. I love playing tuba, but you don't use one for much in a school. The next tuba came 12 years later, when I was asked to play a gig on one, and that was a good enough reason to get one again. Good luck with the degree.

Curmudgeon wrote:
Stay the hell off TubeNet. Go discuss this with your teacher and/or other successful players doing what you want to do.

Good advice but because you asked on Tubenet I assume you don't have a teacher who plays tuba to ask.

If you want to switch to CC tuba and need to know which models to play, research what professionals are playing. I would emphasize here, not teachers, but research professionals who only perform for a living. Miraphones are always a safe bet but how many orchestral tubists use them? Do the research yourself, don't use Tubenet as your guide.

If you want to be an orchestral player, find out what today's orchestral players did and do the same thing. Study with one as well, no better insight to the job than that.

It's not really the horn at the end of the day. It's the person behind it.

If the BBb isn't tubby or hard to slot high notes with, you could keep it. OTOH, I'd be curious what a top masters program would view a BBb candidate.

Could I suggest music ed undergrad and performance masters? I know more performance majors doing other work than those getting paid to play. Great goal to do the symphony gig, but statistically harder to win a job than becoming something like an NFL quarterback (at least there are 90 or so of those, can't say there are 90 full-time symphony tubists and once they win the big job, they stay until they can't play anymore). A solid fall-back if the dream job doesn't work out is wise for any performance major.

I had a great, long conversation with a superb euph/tuba player in my home town and now I really question my students when they talk about becoming a professional musian, particularly tuba/euph students. I don't kill their dream, but I try to keep them realistic.

What is a "professional horn" anyway? People are talking like the OP wants a $15k tuba (no, that's not a good idea right now). I think he should get a 186, an MW-32, or something like that for $4,000 or less and see where it takes him. Those are perfectly capable tubas, professional quality, and likely a LOT better than what he has now.

bloke wrote:

bort wrote:What is a "professional horn" anyway? People are talking like the OP wants a $15k tuba (no, that's not a good idea right now). I think he should get a 186, an MW-32, or something like that for $4,000 or less and see where it takes him. Those are perfectly capable tubas, professional quality, and likely a LOT better than what he has now.

I believe he has one of those good-playing/well-constructed Jinbao-made BBb Hirsbrunner 4/4 copies.

Fair enough... I clearly didn't bother to look up what a Stagg tuba is.

RoosterTuba wrote: I have an opportunity to play in a traveling brass ensemble, and also would like to get into a symphony some day. What sort of model/brand should I be looking for? Keep in mind I'm a college student who is poor. ANY feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Well, if you are set on a CC tuba, I'd recommend some type of used 4/4 or 5/4 tuba, with at least 4 valves, German-made tuba like a Meinl-Weston, B&S, Miraphone, etc, based on what you wrote. People here also seem to like the Gnagey CC tubas that use old classic American tuba parts. But you still have to play many tubas to decide what you really like and prefer.
If you are able to, go to the DC tuba conference at the end of this month, and play a bunch of tubas; new and used

http://www.usarmyband.com/tuba/" target="_blank


Go to the conference, try a whole bunch of horns and figure out what works for you and what doesn't. If there was one model of tuba that worked for everyone, we'd all be playing on it.

Use the google search onthis forum, you'll get some better answers than posting a subject thats been asked several times if you look at previous answers.

I just wanted to post some observations that I haven't read here so far. First, if you don't have a lot of time on a C you will be learning to play one while trying them out. If you could possibly borrow one for a few weeks your going to be better able to compare. When you do shop for a first C "middle of the road" is a good rule for size. If you get working professionally enough to merit a bigger horn get it then. The same for your bass tuba. If you want to stick your toe in the water for a few years and see where it takes you Cerveny Piggies can be had for relatively little money and are good horns. Mirafone 186 and 188 as well as the rotary model Meinl Westons. Piston wise it gets pretty pricey pretty fast but some of those Conns (52 54 56J) are quite good. And if you can play a bunch at one place you may find an excellent Miraclone for cheap. It's always better to play them before buying if just because it's expensive to ship them back and try to get your money back. A conference is a good place to try a lot of horns but most likely there will be lots of others doing the same thing. In the same room. Someplace like Dillon's or Baltimore Brass are very good because it should be just you, whoever is helping you, and the horns you are trying. Since you are looking to go pro, you might also consider keeping your Bb.If you like it a lot. I know it's a financial stretch but if you want to recoup most of your original investment you have to wait for the retail price to go up. And as a pro, there are situations that are easier on Bb.Lastly, you are at the beginning of your working years. The music business is melting away faster than the polar ice caps. Most jobs pay low or not at all and late when they do.Players desperatefor work undercut each other keeping wages down. I think the best deal out there is a Regular military band. You go to the school for six months, get two years of theiry etc in that time And you learn bass. If you're going to try to make a living at it don't overlook that. Then you go play full time for a couple years and make decent money. And they supply the horn so you get lots of time to see how different ones perform in groups. The best of luck to you. Ed PS you also get the GI bill

Related thought -- I'm not really sure where this notion of "musician as a prosperous career" came from. Throughout history, artists of all kinds have typically led lives of struggle and poverty, even some people who are now household names were unknown during their time. Yes, life and the way we consume art has greatly changed in the past 100 years. But during that time, people have also started to value art less, or at least very differently.

As many people have said here before, music isn't a career you pursue because you think it would be fun. It's something you pursue because it IS what defines you, and that you couldn't possibly do anything else. That's why people put up with the struggle involved to be musicians and attempt to make a living out of it.

That said, don't let this stop you from pursuing a dream. If you don't do it now, you never will. And really, if you don't make it and don't start your "real" career until your late 20s, it's not the worst thing in the world. Go all in, try it, and see what you can do. And have a backup plan.

Totally agree. I think you used better words to make the point I was getting at.

In terms of a backup plan, I don't think it necessarily has to detract from what you're currently doing, as much as setting a milestone and having some ideas about what to do if you need to move on with your life in another direction. I think too many people have it set in their minds that you MUST start your career at age 22 and see it through for the rest of your working days. That's what I did, and while it worked out just fine, I have many colleagues that are 20 or 30 years older than me who had MUCH different career paths to get where they are right now... and admittedly, had jobs that were much more fun when they were in their 20's.

bort wrote:As many people have said here before, music isn't a career you pursue because you think it would be fun. It's something you pursue because it IS what defines you, and that you couldn't possibly do anything else. That's why people put up with the struggle involved to be musicians and attempt to make a living out of it.

^^This!

It is critical that you make this decision with full knowledge of what you're getting yourself into. Even in my day, an era of relative booming activity in the music business (lots of professional orchestras, full time salaries, recording money, etc.), we had a saying you've heard before. You don't do it for the money, the fame, or the chicks. I often feel a real kinship between deciding to be a performing musician and the choice to become a priest. It is a calling. It is something that takes everything you have to even have a chance at being successful. Without total commitment and dedication, regardless of possible consequences, you have very little chance of being successful. Ironically, nowadays, priests are paid better.

Before you take the extraordinary step of upgrading your horn, do yourself a favor and wait. Take a deep breath. You don't have 2 things right now that are essential to making a successful choice. You don't have a tuba teacher, someone that is knowledgeable about what horns are out there and has significant experience with how they play (I consider myself extremely qualified to help students select horns and I haven't played half of what's out there, such has been the recent expansion of available products). Having that person to guide you through the process and help you select the right match is really important because they provide something it would take you years to accumulate on your own: experience. Second, you don't have the experience playing on CC tuba yourself. CC tubas can play very differently that BBb tubas. Not knowing those differences can make it very difficult to choose wisely. Let's not even talk about the money yet, that is way further down the line than you are currently.

Be smart. Gather a lot of experience playing the types of horns you're interested in. Keep an open mind, you never know which tuba will be a great match for you. Put in some serious time studying with a top flight teacher and learn what exactly is involved in pursuing a performance career and what kinds of equipment might help you along that path. You'll know when the time is right to start plunking down your cash for the horn that you need to take the next step. Good luck!

Listen to Jay.

[quote="GregTuba79 Good luck, and don't listen to the trolls who can't figure out the fingerings of a CC horn and have to bash them every chance they get. They are usually amateurs who probably don't even know half of their B-flat scales yet anyway. Congrats on 2 seasons of DCI.. [/quote]
Nice post! Trolls? I just reread the posts, and didn't find any posts bashing CC horns. I will now step aside and get out of the way of the select "professional's" who are qualified to answer a question.

swillafew wrote:Listen to Jay.

Jay, more sound advice cannot be given.

Be ye aware that the live music business is rapidly declining in the United States. I tell all of my students at the Maryland Conservatory, have a backup plan as a safety net. Look what happened to Karl Wallenda when walking a tightrope without a safety net . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQtPMG5dv6Q

GregTuba79 wrote:Sound advice, buying a $10k horn right now will never pay for itself. Buy a cheaper horn and learn bass guitar to make yourself more valuable.

The $300 electric bass, $60 amp, and $200 speaker system I had during my college years paid for themselves many times over...and I was turning many bassist jobs away, even in remote Upper Michigan.

hbcrandy wrote:Look what happened to Karl Wallenda when walking a tightrope without a safety net .

hm, yeah - Karl Wallenda died on the job - at the age of 73, after a fantastically successful career as probably the most famous tight rope walker then or since. If that's an example to the rest of us, I think the moral of the story might be more inspirational than cautionary!