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The quarter sizes (3/4, 4/4, 5/4) weren't in the York terminology, were they?

The 716 is shown in the vintage catalogues that I have seen as having a fixed recording bell. I've seen this horn with a detachable recording bell too, but since I've never seen it in a catalogue, I can't be certain if it also went by the model number 716.

I don't ever recall seeing a York Master copy of the 712 (BBb 4 valve with a one piece upright bell). All the YMs I've seen have a detachable bell, like the (possible) 716.

As a little piece of trivia, although they look identical (other than the bell, of course), there are subtle differences in the "build" between the 712 and 716. The valve cluster on the 712 is canted on an angle (sideways and slightly upward), while the 716 valve cluster is dead on perpendicular to the bugle. Also, there is a wide 4th valve upper "branch" on the 712, where on the 716 it wraps tightly around the 5th branch of the bugle, making it impossible to reach your hand through the horn to access the 1st valve slide. There are other differences, but they are too slight to mention, IMHO.

Just some observations from someone who has owned both models, side by side.

I believe the Model 700 is the 3 valve top action version with an upright bell and the Model 702 is the 3 valve side action valve version with an upright bell. The Model 706 is 3 valve top action with front facing bell. I own a 1939 Model 716, a 1940 Model 702, and a York-Master copy of the model 716. (see my avatar) The two Yorks will transformed into one great Model 712 starting later this year.



So the list should read:

Eb or EEb Basses
York Model 660 (Upright bell, 3v, top action, low pitch)
York Model 666 (Recording bell, 3v, top action, low pitch)
York Model 670 (Upright bell, 3v, front action, low pitch)
York Model 676 (Recording bell, 3v, front action, low pitch)

BBb Basses
York Model 700 - (Upright bell, 3v, top action, low pitch, 5/4 in BBb)
York Model 702 - (Upright bell, 3v, front action, low pitch, 5/4 in BBb)
York Model 706 - (Recording bell, 3v, top action, low pitch, 5/4 in BBb)
York Model 712 - (Upright bell, 4v, front action, low pitch, 5/4 in BBb)
York Model 716 - (Recording bell, 4v, front action, low pitch, 5/4 in BBb)

Hi-
Go to Dick's full version of Barthsbrassblog.com and look on the right side for the link 'York Tuba Lineage' for add'l info & pics....FYI....
Mark

Although I am not familiar at all with numerical model listings, but I am familiar with York tubas.

There were four basic sizes of York tubas - 1) the standard Eb, somewhat small-ish by today's standards 3/4 size
2) the monster Eb/standard BBb size, model 33 and the like 4/4 size
3) the large 712 BBb/692 CC size 5/4 size
4) model 91 BBb / 6/4 CC 6/4 size
I have not seen very many of the smaller York Eb's but there are probably a fair number of them still out there. The standard BBb / monster Eb size was apparently the most popular, as they were good do-anything horns. It is interesting to note that the bottom bow and branches of the 4/4 and 5/4 Yorks were essentially the same, with a longer, more gradual bell taper on the 5/4 models, a larger valve bore, and the length difference made up in the main tuning slide area. The two 6/4 York CC's were not a model per se, but custom one-off tubas, as CC tubas of that time were. They are actually not only shorter than the production 6/4 Yorks, but an little smaller, too. The Chicago Yorks both essentially have a 20" bell, whereas the production upright bell 6/4 Yorks typically had a 22" diameter bell. The CC Yorks also seem to have a tighter-radius bottom bow, definitely smaller than the BBb. They are not small horns by any measure, but they are quite compact in their wrap. They are smaller than the 2165 or Holton 6/4 tubas.

Manufacturers can "manufacture" a lot of model numbers because of valve, bell and finish options, but all York tubas I've seen fit in one of those four size categories.

Eb Basses
York Model 666 – (front action 3v, same as 660 but with 20" recording bell)

CC Basses
York Model 692 - (front action 4v, 18 3/4" upright bell)
York Model 696 – (front action 4v, 22" recording bell)

BBb Basses
York Model 701 - (top action 3v, 18 1/2" upright bell, "ML bore", same as 700 but in High/Low Pitch)

Eb Sousaphones
York Model 764 (3v, 26" bell)
York Model 766 (3v, 28" bell)

BBb Sousaphones
York Model 784 (3v, 26" bell)
York Model 786 (3v, 28" bell)

(I have a full 1928 YBIC catalog)

Windshieldbug,

Could you maybe make all of the tuba - related pages of your catalogue available here for us to see? (especially if there are pages that are not already floating around the Web?)

Thanks!

You might also want to capture the York Master/Artist lines from 1945-70:

BASSES
Model Description
54 Master BBb Upright Bass
56 Master BBb Upright Bass
80 Master 3-Valve Bass, Detachable bell
81 Master 4-Valve Bass, Detachable bell
Detachable bell available Forward or Upright
55P Fiberglass Sousaphone, white
Also available in red, blue or gold
55 Master BBb Sousaphone
155 Artist BBb Sousaphone
51 Master Eb Sousaphone
151 Artist Eb Sousaphone

roweenie - I will if I can get a scan that won't harm it by manhandling it, or maybe try one of the hand-held optical scanners...

I sure would love to get a copy of the catalog page for this model 91 monster BBb 6/4.
It has the low/high tuning donut.
Thanks in advance,
Tim

Tim Jackson wrote:I sure would love to get a copy of the catalog page for this model 91 monster BBb 6/4.

This is as close as the 1927 catalog has: Low Pitch only and 4 valves

So... is my horn model 93? I thought it was a 91 because the York mouthpiece I found that fits it so well has 91 stamped on it.

This one is a 5/4 size with a similar to monster Eb-like bell and seems to have the standard bore. It is pictured next to a king 2341 sized tuba for scale, a york 33 and 700 for comparison.










Does anyone know if it has a model number?

FWIW.
York marketed a rotary valve BBb with a detachable recording bell, called the "Cefesco" model.
The catalog mentioned the availability of an upright bell.
At one time I had the York catalog from the 1960s which included a picture and brief description.
The valves were by Meinl-Schmidt. Linkage was clockspring. Finish was lacquer. The receiver was rather large, euro size, though that was pretty standard even on the American made BBbs. I remember having an adapter made.

It was definitely from the time when Bohm & Meinl had acquired the manufacturing and it had the standard wrap found on Miraphones and other German tubas from the time. Also the blade on the bottom bow.

I owned this horn, bought it brand new in 1964 from Henry Glass Music in Philadelphia. I used it in the West Jersey Symphonic Band with Lucien Cailliet conducting for 2 seasons. Great projection and tight focused sound. Not that sensitive though for softer playing. It was rather stiff. I eventually sold it around 1976. By then I was playing CC and F. Obviously, this was not an American York design. Basically a German tuba with a York style bell with the half round band where the flare and the elbow are joined. Likely just a Bohm & Meinl stenciled with "York" on the bell.

Not sure if I still have a photo. Maybe.

lost wrote:While the original goal of this thread was to catalog a list of pre-1940 york models, the york models after 1940 would be interesting to see/discuss since i'm not sure how much is known about those models.

Tabor...what year is the model?

Sn: 85xx. 1903

lost wrote: They also made the model 91 in 4 valves top action and 4 valves front action

I have yet to see a factory original Model 91 in side action with four valves.

(I don't think we can consider the CSO Yorks in this category).

I'm not saying that one couldn't exist, as back in those days, if you had the status (or the money), they would build whatever you wanted. I simply haven't seen this configuration offered as an option in any catalogue (so far).

Here's a clear shot of the York 91 BBb beside a Cut CC Holton.
Could someone be kind enough to post the catalog ad that matches this instrument.
1924 BBb Satin Silver 22.5 inch bell.

Everyone should own a 6/4 at least in there life!
I played this on a church gig the other day... sooooooooo much fun!

Best,
Tim

There was also (pre-1940) a stubby but fat BBb with 4 top-action pistons; rather small bore. I converted it to front-action and call it my "Yorkofone".

Responding to an earlier post in this thread about scanning the catalogs, you can get an app for your smart phone or tablet with a camera to scan the stuff by simply taking a picture of it. If you have a space with good lighting, you don't need to use the flash on your device either. I use TinyScanner to scan my music into PDF on my iphone and ipad but there are a bunch to choose from

TurboScan is excellent too.

I have catalogs from the york company and probably the most info since Bob (Bob Rusk) passed.
What do you want to know?
Joseph Agnew